[Fish Ead]

Ok. Recently I've been mulling over the difference between a dirty trick and just plain powergaming. So I started this topic in hopes that I can promote debate. So heres how it works. You can debate any nasty trick you want, from blocking vehicle exits to free frag grenades courtesy of the bonesword.

So... let us discuss. What dirty tricks are fair game and which are just powergaming? Which are fine for tournaments and which are fine for friendly games?

Let's here what you have to say

[king.com]

I would say powergamming is taking full advantage of the options available ignoring any sane fluff to contradict. Going for the win, playing by the "rules".
eg. 3 Wraith Lords 500pts.

Dirty trick is someone taking use of a bug, glitch or unexplained area of the 40K ruling system.
eg. bonesword mentioned before

[freezing]

Originally Posted by king.com

I would say powergamming is taking full advantage of the options available ignoring any sane fluff to contradict. Going for the win, playing by the "rules".
eg. 3 Wraith Lords 500pts.

They do have to roll for wraithsight now so we should see less of that.

Power gaming , I feel, is more to do with list compisition than tactics. E.G. Min/Maxing
A dirty trick is more a tactic that can be devastating but can be combated.
However they both do cross over into each others terratory E.G. demon siren bombing.

[Gairon]

A good topic. I agree with King.com about the definition on powergaming and the dirty trick. but when it comes to tricks like blocking the exit of destroyed vehicle and thereby killing all the passengers I don't find it a dirty trick. I call it a strategy. Its like in "Saving Private Ryan" in the end where they blow the tracks off the tank. They climb up on the tank and kill the crew trying to escape. It is dirty yeah, but its not an exploit of the rules. War is not a gentlemans sport but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be nice towards eachother when we play. When I find/see/hear about such tricks I always consider if they are an exploit of the rules or like king.com said: A bug, glitch or unexplained are of the 40K ruling system. If they are one of those I don't use it but if it makes sense I'll use it when I get the chance.

[Genmotty]

...Biggest dirty trick I can think of is;

Tau vs Orks 1000pts
Board size 2m/3m
3 Bits of terrian...
Tau list contains: 3x Hammerheads with railguns
Ork list: Lots of foot slogging boyz, few nobs and a big warboss
Tau get turn 1: blast, bang a couple of ork squads go bye bye...
Orks turn 2: Run at Tau
Tau turn 3: Blast, another few squads go down
orks turn 4: Run at Tau, shoot a few things
Tau turn 5: blast, all the orks running at them are dead or fleeing, warboss left on his own, dies to XV8 fire...

About 5-10 Tau dead
More than half the ork army dead...

That was me a while ago > I told him that Tau were poor at long range...(the next time he whooped my D'yi big time, though )

Genmotty

[Kangaroo Joe]

Thats not a dirty trick, thats lying and to a certain extent cheating......

[Deadnight]

Originally Posted by king.com

I would say powergamming is taking full advantage of the options available ignoring any sane fluff to contradict. Going for the win, playing by the "rules".
eg. 3 Wraith Lords 500pts.

Dirty trick is someone taking use of a bug, glitch or unexplained area of the 40K ruling system.
eg. bonesword mentioned before

can't do the 3 wraithlords/500pts any more. the prices all went up.

whats wrong with going for the win and playing by the rules? thats perfectly sporting behaviour.

taking full advantages of the rules is generally perfectly justified.

some examples:
(1) using IC status on crisis suit commanders. or, any other commander
(2)removing models in b2b contact with the guy with the powerfist when you take casualties in assault to deny his attacks
(3) covering the exit hatches of a transport when you krak grenade/powerfist it.
(4) pointing out after all things die in b2b, and you lose the assault, there is no break off roll. you simply retreat 2d6.

now these are all in the rules. and are perfectly justified. furthermore, anybody can use them, so if i use them, im not doing anything you yourself cannot do.

as to using dirty tricks. i see no problem with them. they're the things i will mockingly glare at you for for a brief moment, laugh and then say "good nasty trick, mate". then again, all the dirty tricks mentioned above are in my mind part of the rules and not grey areas, or glitches.

[Abanim]

Originally Posted by Deadnight

now these are all in the rules. and are perfectly justified. furthermore, anybody can use them, so if i use them, im not doing anything you yourself cannot do.

The same applies if I position a vehicle so that my broadside only has line of sight to your commander, and can thus single him out despite the squad he's attached to. I'm abiding by all the rules. Would you really think no less of me if I were to do this?

[Gairon]

Originally Posted by Abanim

The same applies if I position a vehicle so that my broadside only has line of sight to your commander, and can thus single him out despite the squad he's attached to. I'm abiding by all the rules. Would you really think no less of me if I were to do this?

Nope not at all. thats quite clever

Originally Posted by The Guv

Thats not a dirty trick, thats lying and to a certain extent cheating......

Hence the reason I've got every races Codex... :