[SHAS VRE]

Whats the difference between a dirty trick and a clever tactic? is there one? I'm not so sure, are not all tactics just a combination of moves, shooting assaults all with in the rules of the game? and if the "dirty trick" is also with in the rules of the game then surly its just another tactic. People often call tactics "dirty tricks" if there unusual, clever or simple not though of by themselves. FoF was often called a dirty trick when people first started using it, but its not its just a clever tactic that will sometimes work well.

[Hearld of Shadows]

JSJ is anouther on of those that I personally hate! > However it is combatable and I cannot complain about it's legitimacy. (VoDing everything exepect my Ctan and fast attack away over a few turns and geting in combat with the firewarriors usually works! >) It's just anouther tactic, powergaming would be taking a maxed out Battle Suit command squad and using all your elites as Battle Suits or Steath, two squads of Fire Warriors sitting in impassable terain just to finish things off ??? >. Power gaming is making it impossible to win for your opponent where as a dirty trick is as has been mentioned a very effective tactic.

[Lomendil]

Dirty tricks can be a part of powergaming, I'd say. They're a subset of it. Nothing's ever that simple though, and of course not all powergamers use dirty tricks - some just powergame in their list building. And you can use a dirty trick without being a powergamer. Relying on them regularly in games would be powergaming.

Powergaming: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powergaming For 40k, the second defintion (listed for 'hack and slash&#39 applies.

Anyway, playing purely for the win, regardless of whether it leads to a fun, intricate and balanced game, is shallow IMHO. Its like tank-rushing in RTSs or munchkin play in RPGs - too easy for the player doing it and boring for everyone else. I don't have much respect for that kind of playing style or the mentalities that insist on using them. Mind you, just as annoying are people who cry 'unfair!' at anything and everything that does their army even a slight bit of damage and make wild claims of imbalance that aren't even remotely true. These people give a bad name to every player that points out genuine imbalances.

If there's any justice in the world, in Hell, every powergamer will be paired up with a crybaby and they'll be forced to play eachother for eternity.


Dirty tactics: It's all a matter of degrees really, because if a dirty tactic gives one player a huge advantage without them having to put in much effort or risk much, then it's something to be avoided.

So I'd say that using vehicles to funnel the LOS of a friendly trooper so that you can snipe individual models in an enemy army is a dirty tactic in my view, though in truth it's one that's easily avoidable if you're expecting it. But blocking exit ports does require you to at least risk a squad.

[redbeard]

Dirty tricks are only dirty if one player doesn't know that it is coming.

For example, no one considers taking a six-inch assault a dirty trick, because it is so central to the concept of the game that everyone knows the rule.

However, some people consider 'beasts' units (with a twelve inch charge) a dirty trick. Why? Because they didn't see it coming and didn't plan with it in mind.

As far as I'm concerned, anything that is printed in the main rulebook is fair game. All players have the responsibility to know the rules of the game that they're playing. If they fail to do this, it is their fault, not their opponent's, if they fall for something that the rules allow.

Anything in a codex might be considered a 'dirty trick' if it breaks one of the main rule concepts - but only the first time it is used against someone. After that, if you have seen it once before, it's no longer a dirty trick, it's just something that your opponent is allowed to do by the rules for their army.

[crisis_vyper]

For me, I treat powergaminmg and dirty tricks with on;ly one treatment: I leave it alone.

I will fight fairly, no matter what. But that also means that I will be using the dirty tricks as well.

[laxlover_bill369]

Yes I believe power gaming is the all purpose of winning a tournament and not to have fun, (you know 40 year old guys living in their mom's house having nothing but tournament winning trophies up on the wall). One thing I like is to over come the power gamer. Like it a tournament a guy was playing 13th company, he had 45 wolfs, every body call him on cheezy, I said not that is ingenious to use speed like that, but people complaided, that was a dirty tactic, not a dirty army list.

[Xisor]

Power Gaming

Removing all weakness from a list through simple and rudimentary applications of 'percieved' good value.

Not often that effective as, if done in 'purest' form(ie applying Linear Programming mathematical methods to yield the most effective list) will potentially yield a list that is actually: not the strongest due to oversights/ unnavoidable generalisations in the initial settings or simply yielding a list you do not actually feel comfortable using tactically.

Analytical Gaming (Often misrepresented as Power Gaming

Taking lists you feel you can use, and generally removing what you feel to be weaker elements over time. Some mathematical analysis will be involved (simply checking which units are strongest if they charge in 'ideal' and 'worst' conditions etc) when a choice has to be made, but generally speaking it is the product of long and hard gaming, with the player steadily tweaking or experimenting with the list until they feel it is at it's 'best'.

Often far more 'highly' successful than power gaming. These are the sort of gamers who win tournament, they 'master' the ability to actually analyse, organise and use their army.

Sometimes, however, they just get too good.

Dirty Tricks

Using a deliberate and interesting facet of the rules to your (fair) advantage. Setting up units to block fall-back corridors, for instance, or the aforementioned 'blocking the exits' of a Transport.

These are, in my view, perfectly legitimate parts of the game, and should generally be viable topics for discussion around a gaming table (ie there's no need to keep them secret, your opponent will/should probably know about them, and unless your in some form of strictly competitive arena, it's good form to say "You do realise if you move there I can block the exits...", winning through your opponent's stupidity/ill-knowledge of the rules isn't really fun)

Deplorable Tricks

Using the wording of the rules to extremely pernickety and pedantic situations. That is: if a base is within half a milimetre of another base, but calling it as 'out of contact' and such-like.

Another example would be utilising really odd loopholes (the kind of thing you expect will come up in an errata). If these occur it makes sense that you would discuss it with your opponent, or decide on a method to 'dice off' on it if you cannot reach a mutual aggreement. Calling it and being intractable is downright annoying, and often something that'll lead to folks not playing you. Not because it's strict cheating, but because it's being <begins with c, rhymes with runt>.

Cheating and Lying

The earlier example of telling your opponent Tau are poo at long range is really something criminal. If it weren't for the fact there was no 'civil legality' involved, I'd report you to the police.

Deliberately misleading your opponent is simply not on. Saying one unit is in a transport then pulling a sheet of paper which says it's in another transport later on is also deplorable (ie "Haha, fooled you, look where I wrote it really is!"). Even worse (ie in league with this charming young chap: > )is if you have sufficient sheets all well hidden to produce to you opponent allowing for them to be in any transport, or perhaps even off the board awaiting to deep-strike or reserve on.

In any event, such things are very not cool.

Xisor

[korik1]

The only thing I find to be powergaming is tailoring your list against a specifc army when you know you're facing them. Making an all-comers list is really the only proper way to make an army list.

EDIT: Oh yea, I forgot my personal dirty trick. I play hybrid Tau and I set up ,y mobile section on one side of the board and my static section on the other. This usually causes my opponent to split their forces to deal with each threat. Then I move my entire mobilesection over to where my statics are.

[Gairon]

Originally Posted by korik1

.... Oh yea, I forgot my personal dirty trick. I play hybrid Tau and I set up ,y mobile section on one side of the board and my static section on the other. This usually causes my opponent to split their forces to deal with each threat. Then I move my entire mobilesection over to where my statics are.

Not a dirty trick.. It is tactics...

[GeekyGator]

Originally Posted by Gairon

Not a dirty trick.. It is tactics...

Yes, that is most definatley tactics. It's something the Tau might actually do.