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Rule lawyers out of hand?
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 23:48   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Rule lawyers out of hand?

I was up at my local GW about a week ago looking for something to do in this o so boring summer.Tonkatruckdriver and my friend were up there. They were getting a game going and I was watching. They began to get into a debate on wether a hammer head, or for that matter any vehicle with a flying base, would have to measure from its base. In the rulebook it says that measuring is done from the base. This would make him lose some inches that may be critical to a game. Then when my friend went to assault his hammerhead with a greater demon, he could not reach the base from the front, which is where we decided to give him a taste of his tactics. We looked in the rules section and it said that assualting a vehicle is performed exactly as assaulting troops...and that was it. This means that his greter demon could not assault his tank because it could not reach the base, when it has to assault in the most direct path which was from the front. Of course he did not like this, but the game continued on.

He has even found some ruling tha book that stops wraithlords from getting 2d6 against vehicles.(who really cares though there strengh ten!)

I think that rule lawyers will contunue to make the game more unrealistic and less fun. Has anyone else had some really bad rule lawyer experiences?
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 23:56   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule lawyers out of hand?

I don't think rules lawyers have any real impact on the game.

Why?

Because you, me, and every player in the world has 100% control over who they play against.

If you don't play them, it's not an issue.
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 00:00   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule lawyers out of hand?

I think probably the worst single instance rules lawyering I've seen was done by me :-X

There's a loophole in the DE codex that allows you to bring Incubi with a Wych Cult (By the fluff you really can't, but the rules allow for a way around it using a special character)

As for actual in-game rules lawyering, I've never seen anything that bad.

As for the hammerhead thing, don't they have 72" range anyways? What's the problem with losing 3", unless you're trying to make a corner to corner shot.
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 00:02   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule lawyers out of hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Thunder
I don't think rules lawyers have any real impact on the game.

Why?

Because you, me, and every player in the world has 100% control over who they play against.

If you don't play them, it's not an issue.
Yes but its the ones watching you have to look out for, and you cant choose who you have watching your game in a GW store
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 01:17   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule lawyers out of hand?

If you have problems with self-appointed rules judges, then simply ask them not to do so. If they continue, then ask a GW employee to ask them not to. If they continue, then ask them to leave. If they continue, then ask a GW employee to remove them.

I mean, it's really easy to deal with. It's not like you have no recourse. :
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The MTV lie is that people who rebel against tradition are thnking for themselves, while those who follow tradition are just sheep who do not think.
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 01:50   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule lawyers out of hand?

Actually I have to disagree with you completely there Doctor Thunder rules lawyers can be a great problem and they are one reason I simply refuse to go to the local GW to game. The staff are totally unhelpful and are actually in some cases rules lawyers themselves and many of the gamers there are aswell and all seem to wish to voice their oppinions loudly and intrude. Plus they will of course not leave and not stop when asked. You either have to ignore them or not go there. In addition many players simply do not have many options in people to play. For instance there are few places around me I can go to play and I know next to nobody that plays around me so I either have to go to places that are not fun or travel some distance and for some there simply are no other places to go. Its not as simple as you make it out to be.

One of the things I find most annoying are that many of the rules lawyers I see around are avid Space Marine players so will of course make things very difficult for anyone who does not play marines. In most cases they are wrong but proving them so can be quite time consuming and require very in depth knowledge of your army and all of its specifics which really takes time from the actual games and is most of the time quite a pain. Some will simply keep arguing using rediculous loop holes until their opponent simply gives up and lets in, which again takes away from the fun of the game.

I find rules lawyers to be a great annoyance and very bad in general. In fact they can turn many people off to the hobby. Ive seen quite a few players quite because they have become sick of dealing with rules lawyers and power gamers and with nowhere else to go to play give up the hobby.

Finding good people to play against is a problem Im sure many players face, its certainly one I often have myself.
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 04:13   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule lawyers out of hand?

That same buddy claims that I refuse to fight him because I am afraid to loose...And that may be true, but with his constant rule lawyering he has become very unfun to play. I have beaten him before he usually playes pretty cheesy lists too. I think he is probably one of the worst players in fun wise to play against.
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 05:13   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule lawyers out of hand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vash113
Actually I have to disagree with you completely there Doctor Thunder rules lawyers can be a great problem and they are one reason I simply refuse to go to the local GW to game. The staff are totally unhelpful and are actually in some cases rules lawyers themselves...
Which GW shop have you been to??? I live in Australia and if anything GW helpers and Employees are great... Infact thats probly the biggest reason i go, free help and consoltaion...

but towards the question, I see Vehicles as being front of model to destination... This may not be the case in the rule book but normal vehicles (which dont have bases) measure fromt he front of the model and in all fairness Skimmers are suposeed to be faster so i say measure from the front... not the base, and that includes being shot, being charged and shooting
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 06:29   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule lawyers out of hand?

The situation changes from place to place but Ive visited a number of GW stores up and down the east coast of the US and notice many of the employees (and the regulars) are power gamers and/or rules lawyers. Heck I was up visiting my gf in new york and stopped in a GW store up there to look around and walked out after 10 minutes, the moment I said I played Tau I was suddenly assailed by one of the employees babling about how all the common Tau tactics were against the rules for all these reasons. It was utter BS and if I had wanted to I could have proven otherwise but really, Im not one to submit myself to that kind of argument or that kind of environment.

Im sure the situation is different in other places it just seems that everywhere I go GW stores just arent great places to be in for very long :.

Ah well Ill just stick to going to the small hobby shops in the area. Thats one benefit to being around a large city there are more options.
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 11:03   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Rule lawyers out of hand?

Hmmm... No ofence to anyone but I mean... US GW shops sound realy realy sucky... AU ones are great... I love em so much... You should come over here and go to one, you'll see how cool they are
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