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the way you take saves??????
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 15:30   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default the way you take saves??????

i have a qusetion about they way you take saves. I have read in the rule book (i don't think its out of date its the "IV" one) anyway it gave an example that if someone had an armour save of 3+ invulnerable save of 4+ and was in cover that gave a save of 3+ and said to use the best save to make his save witch would be 3+ but what about the invulnerable and the armour or cover save (because it said to use one of the 3+ save) in my mind it would go like this my hero gets hit with an Ap5 weapon first i use the cover save then if that didn't stop it then then then the invulnerable save (because if it was real the shot would hit the cover then the invulnerable save (lets say its a shield that give him the invulnerable save) then if that didn't stop the shot then i would use the armour save (because that the last thing its would hit before it got down to my hero skin. would this take to long in a game to do or something else ????
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 16:06   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: the way you take saves??????

i think it would just take way to long and be unfair to any army that is good in CC a chaos lord would be unstopable heading in two you line if he get 3 trys to save
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 17:22   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: the way you take saves??????

Also it is more fluffy the way it is. If you were actually fighting in the battle and you saw a unit of marines aiming at you, you would have about half a second to decide if you want to dive into cover, brace for impact, or use your shield/force field/thing that gives you an invulnerable save. After you choose, whatever you chose to keep you alive either worked or didn't work. If it did you're alive, if it didn't you're dead.
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 17:27   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: the way you take saves??????

Really it's for balance reasons in my mind. Sure, a hero may have cover, then his shield, then his body army to stop everything, but really... You want to let someone take a 4+ cover save, a 5+ invulnerable, and then a 2+ armor save? That's going to stop an insane percentage of shots and we can't have that.

In real life there are far fewer casualties thanthere are in a game of 40k, because in real life you get your benefits from cover and from your armor so you die far less often. But people playing a game like to see people die >
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 17:56   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: the way you take saves??????

As Alc. said, it's for balance. A Terminator in this case, say he's shot by a pulse rifle in 4+ cover...
1/2 shots hit...
2/3 shots wound...
1/2 get through the cover...
2/3 get through his invulnerable save...
1/6 gets through his armor...
All told, a pulse rifle will kill a terminator about 1.8% of the time, so you need around 50 shots to take one down. Now figure in a 5-man squad...

Nothing would happen, really. The current save system allows the game to actually move.
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Old 06 Jul 2006, 23:35   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: the way you take saves??????

Plus, think about it. If your armor failed, it means there was a whole punched in your armor somewhere and metal shards could be in your body. If your force field shortens out you'll probably get an electrical shock. And if your behind a wall and it colapses, you could get trapped or hit with falling rocks. Either way, your wounded .
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 00:04   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: the way you take saves??????

Your point does stand up in fantasy warhammer though, since you may take ward saves (their invulnerable saves) after taking regular armour saves (not sure about cover saves though, I aint that attune to the rules regarding cover in fantasy)
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 06:11   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: the way you take saves??????

When me and a friend of mine starting playing mock battles to understand the game mechanics, he asked the same thing and argued it. I though I had read some where that you only ever got one save just like you only ever got one re-roll. I checked it and I was right. In the BGB it says that you only ever get one save and it is your best save.

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Old 07 Jul 2006, 06:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: the way you take saves??????

Hehe.... I first played 40k like this. Terminators in cover were invincable. No onder we never finished a game back then....
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Old 07 Jul 2006, 12:24   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: the way you take saves??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suicide
i have a qusetion about they way you take saves. I have read in the rule book (i don't think its out of date its the "IV" one) anyway it gave an example that if someone had an armour save of 3+ invulnerable save of 4+ and was in cover that gave a save of 3+ and said to use the best save to make his save witch would be 3+ but what about the invulnerable and the armour or cover save (because it said to use one of the 3+ save) in my mind it would go like this my hero gets hit with an Ap5 weapon first i use the cover save then if that didn't stop it then then then the invulnerable save (because if it was real the shot would hit the cover then the invulnerable save (lets say its a shield that give him the invulnerable save) then if that didn't stop the shot then i would use the armour save (because that the last thing its would hit before it got down to my hero skin. would this take to long in a game to do or something else ????
when GW oroginally designed third edition, they planned on cover working this way. A unit would get a cover save, then its armour save. the problem was, with this system, marines were, literally, invincible. there was no way to stop them.

In any case, having a system like this would polarise armies to an extent unheard of even in 3rd ed. In 3rd ed you were either pure shooty, pure fighty or a mix of the two. with this, you'd see one shooty army with LOTS of troops sitting in cover pounding out a hail of fire, and all but im mune to anything coming at them.
you'd have one other army, the assaulty one that charges across the board to tear the shooty army to bits. And if shooty meets shooty, you roll lots of dice, and nothing will die. assaulty meets assaulty, and its the opposite, its a pure bloodbath.

40k works the way it does. its streamlined and its (fairly) balanced. Its a game. It should be viewed as a game, and not a real-life-war-simulator. you want that, then join the army, or the french foreign legion!
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