Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

The Confusion Strategy?
Closed Thread
Old 19 Jun 2006, 00:38   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: New England - United States of America
Posts: 3,461
Default The Confusion Strategy?

Rather than rely on raw strategy and logic to win a fight, has anyone tried to confuse their opponents? You could move your units, and choose units, so that your opponent believes you are doing one strategy when you are really doing another. This way, they will try and use tactics to destroy that strategy rather than what you really have, which could really confuse your opponent and make him easier to defeat once they behave differently from what he suspected.

Since I do not believe this is used often, I do not have any examples. But could this strategy be an effective alternate perspective to the many strategies in 40k?
__________________

A fantastic sig by Kais.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rev_Enge(spc)
And there we have it. Gentlemen, we give you Black Behemoth, future Supreme Overlord of Earth.
Black Behemoth is offline  
Old 19 Jun 2006, 01:36   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Coloma
Posts: 1,463
Default Re: The Confusion Strategy?

I do this with both my hybrid tau and my hybrid tyranids.

with the tau I decide before the battle (after deployment) what I need to do, how I want to do it. Then I make something other than those units look a lot more inviting to my opponent. Then to really make it confusing, I tell them exactly what I plan to do. By making a unit or two look really dangerous, I can usually convince my opponents that I don't know what I'm doing. Except now my regular opponents have gotten wise and actually started going after the right target, which also means that I have to completely change the way I play. Confused yet? ;D

As for the nids, well that one comes down to a basic "which one do I fear the least?". I split my list between a stealer horde and a zilla list. then I make sure to make it look like my army is literally split in half with the shooty stuff on one side and the assaulting hoarde on the other. the problem my opponents haven't figured out yet is that with scuttlers and the fleet of claw I can basically reposition half of my army before the game starts (and during the first turn).

can't wait for my usual victims to figure that one out.

oh, and in case we are ever in a tournament together, my name is Manuel, yeah thats the ticket. :
__________________
To blindly follow others is to live the life of a lemming. Be yourself, no matter what others may say.
Howloutloud is offline  
Old 19 Jun 2006, 03:15   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 203
Default Re: The Confusion Strategy?

I don't see it as a reliable tactic, especially at higher levels of play.

The problem is that the game just isn't as deep as all that. You need one of two things in order to play mindgames with an experienced opponent - you either need hidden knowledge or a very complex game. 40k isn't chess; there's really not much to it, tactically speaking. Your opponent also knows everything you know, excepting which unit is in which transport.

A good player will just ignore your feint. To the extent that the units you're moving in order to 'look dangerous' are, in fact, dangerous, he'll respond to them. To the extent that your other units are dangerous, he'll respond to them. How exactly can you make a unit look more dangerous than it really is to a player that knows what he's about? If anything, most good players would be instantly suspicious if you fail to make an obviously optimal move with a given unit.
Gotchaye is offline  
Old 19 Jun 2006, 04:29   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 3,432
Send a message via AIM to MechTau
Default Re: The Confusion Strategy?

I'm agreeing here.

Warhammer is a game of... killing the enemy.
__________________
Watch me rebuild my army! - Now with pics of my new scheme!

Open invitation to all: Send me a pm, and I'll be have a look at your army list.
[url=http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=11198.0]Crisis Suit Theory, Army Composition, and why Fireknives suck - You've got to read this classic by T0nka
MechTau is offline  
Old 19 Jun 2006, 04:48   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,096
Default Re: The Confusion Strategy?

I think a bit of misdirection is certainly possible.

Strange tactics that people haven't seen before might catch them offguard but I think the most effective thing to do is simply target saturation.

Give them more targets that are threatening than they can deal with. Or at least concentrate those dangerous targets in one spot.

The best way to do this is with speed and manuverability.

Put your army where it needs to be when it has to be and leave half his army in the dust.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliodorus04
Falstead, you're a genius!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer_Emlyn
Gah! Not a silly Canadian. Can't Falstead ever be wrong?!?!? ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafe (Autarch Kiardras)
My god.... the sarcasm there nearly shorted out my computer screen Nice.
Falstead is offline  
Old 19 Jun 2006, 05:00   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 588
Default Re: The Confusion Strategy?

Well, I have the one modelling tactic. That is, my daemon prince (unstatured) is modelled with all appropriate upgrades, but it's done subtlly, so that he looks less intimidating than he actually is. A unit 12 strong of fire warriors was eliminated in a single turn by something that looks FAR less intimidating than my Predator.
Deadman42 is offline  
Old 19 Jun 2006, 05:38   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 1,240
Default Re: The Confusion Strategy?

Im not so much a tricky player, just good.

ie- I peel up with my Transport loaded with FW, threatening a SM sqaud, at the same time I make a bold move with the HH.

So they have choice, gamble on the HH, or shoot the troops and kill them. If they shoot the troops, the HH will pwn them, if they shoot at hte HH, they will het pwned by the FWs and the HH could very will live(4+ glancing only, and the sad eldar range)

Avor is offline  
Old 19 Jun 2006, 08:54   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 622
Send a message via AIM to Nuke
Default Re: The Confusion Strategy?

I have done this once before.. in my 1st game, actually, and quite inadvertently. I deployed my crisis Monat' suit on the same side of the table that he had deployed his kasakrin on ( he was playing grey knights) (not sure on kasakrin spelling). My crisis was equipped with a shield gen. missile pod, fusion plaster, and hard wired multi tracker+HW drone controller (2 gun drones). He took this threat seriously, moving his terminators up (a squad of 8 w/ grand master) to shoot it (they were in the middle of the table, hidden behind cover from my right flank units) if it moved up on the squad so the drones could fire and he could use his fusion... so I decided to wing it and move the full 6'' in movement, taking out 2 kasakrin in the shooting phase with the pod, moving the 6'' in the assault phase to get out of the termie's LOS... that distraction allowed my hammerhead to peek into view of the squad, unleashing it's main gun (using SPLAT rounds, not subs)... that was his whole army there. it was an 850 point game.. he took the termies, the kasakrin, and a land raider crusader (got immobilized turn 1, i shot 1st). the tactic worked quite well in that instance, and I am planning on (purposefully, this time) using a variation of it in the upcoming local tourney i am taking part in.
__________________
"A picture is worth a thousand words, but a well-constructed sentence is worth a thousand pictures" -Use spell check, it's there for a reason.

"He who opens a school door, closes a prison." -Victor Hugo
Nuke is offline  
Old 19 Jun 2006, 15:53   #9 (permalink)
77
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 984
Default Re: The Confusion Strategy?

This kind of tactic should only be tried under twoconditions:

1) The unit(s) that are going to do this are capable of being a real threat to two potential targets.

2) The "threat" needs to play into what you are trying to achieve in your game so that it will result in a victory; not just to look cool.

I liken this element of tactics in the same way that you can fork pieces with a pawn or a knight in chess. When this happens, your opponent will lose a piece no matter what he does. The trick is to capitalize on position rather than just being "able to do it."

Eg. Anyone can fork two pawns with one (that is move a pawn so that it threatens two others). The problem with this is that your opponent will just throw a pawn in to trade and remove the "threat." In the same way, a SM player with an assault squad could position them so that they threaten a unit of rippers and a unit of gaunts. I think that either way, the tyranid player knows that they will get chewed so they will throw one (or both) into it and remove the "threat."

Having weight behind the force that is forking is key, otherwise your opponent will just ignore it. Saying that a falling back unit has range on 2 targets is not effective. Having an 3 Fire Knife Suits in range of two transports and a tank with a target lock is better. It keeps your opponent guessing.

Position and what you are "forking" is the key. Units that have a greater range of movement are going to be able to conceal their intention better than those that can only move 6". This is simply because you can only go so far in 6". Going again with the assault squad, if you were to place them within 18" of a Tau Commander and a Squad of Stealth Suits (cover interposing, of course), it would keep the Tau player guessing what you are going to assault.

The best forks in chess is probably where you can position your knight to put your opponent's king in check as well as threaten their rook/bishop or better still, the queen. This forces your opponents to preserve the king and allow you to get a piece up (or trade to your advantage....). In 40K, what are the units that your opponent holds so dearly that, if threatened, they will make a move that is tactically stupid just to preserve it? Give the threat to one target that may be worth more and change to wipe out another completely when your opponent compensates and gives the other target no back up.

This forking can even work with objectives. Keeping a squad threatening a unit and still in range to move and score puts pressure on your enemy.


Also, many know that chess is also measured in points in its way.

Pawns = 1
Bishops/Knights = 3
Rooks = 5
Queen = 9
King = Infinite (since you win with its capture)

Based on this, I will always trade a Bishop for a Rook. The Bishop is relegated in its movement to one color of square, where the Rook has greater movement. I will even go as far as to trade a Rook and a Knight for the Queen; its just worth it.

Now in WH40K, can I "trade" a unit that is worth less points for one that is greater. Typically, those units that are more points will trounce the lesser, but it is not just about that. Could a low point/falling back squad tie up a scoring unit, maybe even taking it out of the scoring range? Throwing grunts in the way of an elite squad in the later game can tie them up so that they cannot reach their objective.

One last point about confusion deals with the way that you talk to your opponent. I'm not talking about, "You're command squad is dust before my approaching aspect warriors," but a more subtle approach. Mentioning that your Rough Riders assault at 12" makes your opponent consider what is now in range. Saying that you love Unit X because they get 60 dice on the charge makes them look for the assault and perhaps ignore your shooters that you moved into position. All kinds of minds games that can help. This is further enhanced when there is more than two players on the board (cf. playing RISK with 2 boards and 12 people.... half the time is spent persuading others to fight your battles.....). All of this plays into the realm of "confusion" tactics.

All in all, I think that there is application for this idea. Just keep those two factors that I mentioned at the beginning in mind and you can cause all the havoc you can muster.
77 is offline  
Old 19 Jun 2006, 16:01   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: BlackBurn, Lancashire, England
Posts: 3,060
Send a message via MSN to Elessar
Default Re: The Confusion Strategy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 77
Pawns = 1
Bishops/Knights = 3
Rooks = 5
Queen = 9
King = Infinite (since you win with its capture)
the problem with this is that it doesn't work for every mode of play. for a beginer then rooks will be invaluable, but anyone who has played for a few years will soon realize that bishops can easily out shine rooks. The same can be said for 40K. while for an un-experianced player it would be very beneficial to keep his leman russ alive a more experianced player may realize his infantry squads are more valuable. In general your average player will not use his knights very often, do to their relativly short moving space and odd rules. The same way most people shy away from using ratlings, sseing them as weak and odd, with no real purpose. But then you have a player which pins down a daemonprince with a single ratling squad, making the opponenets most valueable unit a sitting duck. The same way you can see Garry Kasparov glady sacrificing a bishop or rook in favour of his knights, who are essential to has strategy.
__________________
http://world2.monstersgame.co.uk/?ac=vid&vid=31118495
go to the above to help me on a browser game
Download my codex! http://www.box.net/public/d6c1ki0iah Click on the .pub file and hit Save to Disk.

Elessar is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Help clearing up confusion Ekiel Tau 5 15 Mar 2009 23:10
Bit of confusion Yevrah23 Tau 5 04 Mar 2009 10:37
Sky Ray confusion Kosmo Tau 5 08 Jun 2006 00:31
Collectible "strategy" games; really strategy? Colonel_Sanders Enclave Talk 14 04 Feb 2006 04:57
Wych Confusion Orion Dark Eldar 3 25 Feb 2005 02:51