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IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 15:03   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this

This comes up so often at the tournaments I go to and even friendly games. When it comes to VP, the book says IC's do not count towards your side for victory points or scoring units. Now I have had people argue that an IC with a bodyguard/retinue does count towards scoring points but I disagree. The way I see things if that the points you spend on the character do not add to VP conditions.

ie

Cannoness 100 pts with a retinue of 9 sisters (117 pts) would have a combined squad cost of 227 pts but for VP purposes only the 117 of the retinue would count right? the 100 pts for the Cannoness do not.

Perhaps I am not explaining it correctly so in another way. No points spent on characters count as VP for mission objectives or scoring units right?
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 15:07   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this

Giving him the retinue makes him lose all of is IC rules. Not some, all. He counts for VPs and it is a scoring unit.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 15:22   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this

Then what happens when the retinue is killed, and only she is left? Doesn´t she get the IC status back? This could in turn lead to interesting situations, where canoness and 1 surviving retinue member are more value to enemy in VP then surviving canoness and destroyed retinue if he kills the last retinue member.
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 15:45   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this

Thats the issue. The way I have interpreted it is that any points spent on the HQ character (master, cannoness, lord etc) at no time count as VP or scoring units even with a retinue or bodyguard. Only the points for the bodyguard/retinue count the way I see things.
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 16:02   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Tanis
Thats the issue. The way I have interpreted it is that any points spent on the HQ character (master, cannoness, lord etc) at no time count as VP or scoring units even with a retinue or bodyguard. Only the points for the bodyguard/retinue count the way I see things.
An Independent Character with a retinue is a scoring unit, but in some sense also counts as two units. If you reduce the retinue to half-strength, you will get half points for the retinue and they will cease to be a scoring unit. If you wound the Character, you will get half points for the Character. If you destroy the entire retinue but do not wound the character, you will get full points for the retinue but none for the character, although the character will cease to be a scoring unit for the purposes of objectives.

So in the example of the Canonness with one bodyguard left, your opponent is only getting half-points for the retinue and no points for the Canonness, although the unit is no longer strong enough to hold down objectives. If you kill the last bodyguard, you will gain full points for the retinue but the Canoness will go back to being an IC.
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 17:09   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this

Don't foget that IC's are always IC's for purposes of combat!

Other than that I think Khanaris has it right.
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 19:40   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Khanaris
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Tanis
Thats the issue. The way I have interpreted it is that any points spent on the HQ character (master, cannoness, lord etc) at no time count as VP or scoring units even with a retinue or bodyguard. Only the points for the bodyguard/retinue count the way I see things.
So in the example of the Canonness with one bodyguard left, your opponent is only getting half-points for the retinue and no points for the Canonness, although the unit is no longer strong enough to hold down objectives. If you kill the last bodyguard, you will gain full points for the retinue but the Canoness will go back to being an IC.
Ok flip it now, if I am playing Recon and I Get my 300+ pt character with 1 bodyguard/retinue left into my enemy deployment zone do I score the 300+ points for the CHaos Lord and 0 pts for the bodygurard/retinue b/c itis below 50% strength?
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 19:46   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Tanis
Ok flip it now, if I am playing Recon and I Get my 300+ pt character with 1 bodyguard/retinue left into my enemy deployment zone do I score the 300+ points for the CHaos Lord and 0 pts for the bodygurard/retinue b/c itis below 50% strength?
Remember that there is a difference between how a unit counts for victory points and how it claims objectives. In that case, the retinue is below half-strength, and is thus not a scoring unit. So you would score no points for getting it into your opponent's deployment zone. Your opponent, on the other hand, would only get half points for killing the retinue and no points for the 300-point IC (if they did not wound him). The IC is never a scoring unit unless he has a retinue and they are above half-strength (counting him). If they are still a scoring unit and make it to your opponent's deployment zone, I believe you would get points for both the retinue and the Character.

edit: fixed
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 22:00   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this

Ok, put it this way. A 300 pts IC lord bought with a 3 man retine (300 pts) is reduced to Lord + 1 at the end of the game in opponent deployment zone. So I would score 600pts 300 for the lord and 300 for the retinue since the squad is only at 50% strength. It doesn't seem right that tooled up characters can score such a whopping amount of extra VP
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Old 12 Jun 2006, 22:05   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: IC and Scoring Units can someone walk me through this

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Tanis
It doesn't seem right that tooled up characters can score such a whopping amount of extra VP
That's only more incentive to kill them...believe me, a tooled up character like that is a huge liability in a VP game.
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