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Using two weapons
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Old 09 Jun 2006, 10:53   #1 (permalink)
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Default Using two weapons

Argument that arose in my club today...

Let's say you've got a character with Power Fist and Power Weapon. This gives him +1 attack.

Now Thorgrimm says that, because the Power Fist is granting the +1 A, you strike last even if you choose to attack with the Power Weapon.

My argument is that you determine your number of attacks, then how you make them, so the weapons are irrelivent; whichever you use, you get +1 A. The penalties and benefits are seperate.

I'd just like you all to confirm I'm right.
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Old 09 Jun 2006, 11:07   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Using two weapons

Power fist drops the initiative down to 1, BBB page 46. I would argue that you could choose to not use the power fist, so you would in effect be only using one weapon. In a frenzied meele environment, one cant say "Excuse me good sir, I do not currently wish to fight with my power fist, allow me a moment to take it off." ect.
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Old 09 Jun 2006, 11:36   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Using two weapons

If you have a Power Weapon and a Power Fist I always assumed that you chose which to use, which in a way relegates the other weapon to just a close combat weapon.

So if you use the Fist; +1 Attack, I1, Double Strength, No saves.

If you use the Power Weapon; +1 Attack, No Saves.

Although, I suppose it could be argued that you won't get the extra attack. Which isn't that big a drawback.

It's never really come up for me though, it's a lot of points to be throwing around for a little versatility.
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Old 09 Jun 2006, 12:51   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Using two weapons

It is generaly zssumed that you can turn power fists 'off', even if your other weapon is a bolt pistol, still giving you the extra attck (I think it even mentions it in the book) Also, remember that a bolt pistol can give a power weapon and extra attack!
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Old 09 Jun 2006, 14:57   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Using two weapons

I don't have the BGB so I can't quote rules for you, my friend. However, if there was no precedent and I'm just dictating what I feel is best I'd say the following:

You MAY attack with either weapon. The benefits and detriments of using either is up to you.

HOWEVER, for the sake of sanity I'd say that you will ALWAYS strike last as is the Power Fist rules.

Why? Because if you want the +1 attacks that's because supposedly you're using two weapons. That means that in some way you're using the Power Fist and to utilize it in your attacks you'd be striking last.

Basically my opinion is that, like movement, you are limited by the slowest moving tool used. The slowest tool in using both a power fist and a power sword is the fist which would mean for that additional attack it doesn't matter how fast you are with a sword, you're still swinging that slow fist around.

Now, on another note, I'd say you would strike with your full initiative if you didn't use the Power Fist at all. I have no objections to anyone "turning off" various gear. After all, if you've got a pistol and a rifle you don't HAVE to use either one, you can use whichever one you wish. Thing is that if you choose to disable the Power Fist then you will NOT get +1 to your attacks since you're no longer using both weapons...but you DO get your full initiative, which is quite a bonus.

Now that's just the way I look at it, YMMV and all that. If there's a completely clearcut definition somewhere in the rulebook for this situation roll it out but until then unless my opponent has an objection that's how I'd run it. Makes sense to me.
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Old 09 Jun 2006, 15:04   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Using two weapons

What FOXX said would be logically correct, however the rules aren't logical.

The BGB even gives the powerweapon + power fist situation as an example... See page 46, I'll quote a single sentence:

Originally Posted by BGB
...so the player can opt to strike at his normal Initiative with the power axe, and use his power fist as an additional weapon, or can count his power axe as an additional weapon, and strike with his power fist at an Initiative of x.
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Old 09 Jun 2006, 15:04   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Using two weapons

I always thought it was pretty clearly written, with an example exactly like the one described above, on page 46 of the rule book:

Page 46; Special Close Combat Attacks

"... might be equipped with more than one type of special close combat attack, eg. a power fist and a power axe... so the player can opt to strike at his normal Initiative with the power axe, and use the power fist as an additional weapon, or can count his power axe as his additional weapon, and strike with his power fist at an Initiative of 1...."

Pretty clear to me.

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Old 09 Jun 2006, 15:06   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Using two weapons

i say that if you choose not to use your power fist then you strike normal but lose an the extra attack. if you turn your powerfist off it just becomes a huge gauntlet, not a CC weapon. also, jsut becuase you turn it off doesn't mean you can start fighting with that arm at the same speed you could with just a sword.
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Old 09 Jun 2006, 15:07   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Using two weapons

I agree with MalVeauX . Choose which you want to use and still get the additional attack. Even if that big fist isn't being used to grab hold of people and squeeze the life out of them, it may still play an important part in the melee. It could be assumed the wearer is using it to parry incoming blows or knock opponents off balance while he slashes away with his sword. The reverse could also be true.

Besides, if someone really wants to blow all those points just to have the option...let 'em have it.
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Old 09 Jun 2006, 15:09   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Using two weapons

Elessar: The rules quoted in the post directly above you, and the post above that, sorta answer this question.

Anyways, you don't have to try to grab with the PF or PK.....you can randomly flail about instead.

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