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Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...
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Old 31 May 2006, 00:56   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...

Well, lately I have been hearing of GW price hikes (and falls, Horay!), and was considering dropping the hobby to a more smaller role in my free time. However, I checked the forums, and most of the complaints were that teens couldn't afford it anymore. Well, after some quik thinking, I discovered, WRONG!!!!

We all know 40k is a luxery hobby, but I compared it to a lesser $ hobby (supposedly)gaming. Many kids in the U.S. (if not most, it seems like 99.9% i my community) are in t video games, and have an X-box or something. I did a number crunch on teh cost of both hobbies, and got some starteling results.

Well, to start, lets say you bought an X-Box 360 to start gaming. That would set you back $300, 400 for expanded system! If you tok the core, thats another $25 for a second controller, and $20 for a decent memory card. Also, you want to buy the system with some games, so lets throw in 4 (sounds good) to start, thats another cool $240. So, to start gaming today, thats $585.

To start 40k, lets assume you bu BFM. Thats $45, but comes with dice, BBB, ect. NOw, lets assume you start marines. With the free tac squad, you need another tac squad-$35, codex-$20, commander-$15, and somethng else to spruse up the army, lets say a $40 dreadnaught. Add in $25 in paints, $10 in glue, $10 in brushes and $15 in clippers, thats $215.

To expand gaming, you buy more games, lets say 10. Thats $600. Add in another memory card -$20, and 2 more controllers, $50. Thats $670. To expand 40k, the combonations are limitless. However, smeone just did a thread on how much 2k pts armies cost to bild, which is around 300-350 dollars. So take out the $100 we've already spent, thats about $225. Addin in $30 more in paints, $10 in more brushes, and $10 in more glue, thats $275.

So, in 40k you spend about $500 to gamings $1250! But thats not all! In games, they average about 30 hours of gameplay without replaying (great games like KOTOR with great relayability and Halo which get great use out up in MP are balenced out by games you buy, hate, and never play). So, thats $60. For a 35 dollar tac squad, you get about 20 minutes of bulding each guy, (so 200 minutes or 3 1/3 hours). Add 2 hours for actually painting (more if your really good), thats another 20 hours. Thats about 23 hours, whih is less than gaming. However, the tac squad is almost half as much. For gaming, its $1=.5hours, but for 40k its $1=7/5, or 1.4 hours. And thats just the hobby side. You can spend countless hours dreaming up fluff and army lists, as well as actually playing the game, going to tournies, ect. There it dwarfs gaming in comarison.

So in conclusion, gaming beats 40k in money spen 3:1 dollar for dollar, with 40k having much more hours actually using the products. Therefore, 40k is not an expensive hobby compared to the widly used hobby of gaming. There are hard facts to prove it. This info and other pieces of data like it should be used will by GW, as 'its too expensive' is the main turnoff point.

So, what do you think??
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Old 31 May 2006, 01:06   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...

I think that is a video gaming biased statement (that they make, not you)... kids are into the instant gratification of popping in a game and getting to play instantly rather than spending time building and painting. I happen to enjoy both, but because I am lazy, I tend to favor the instant entertainement of video games to the (sometimes) tedious labor of painting and building. So, not only does it cost money, it also costs free time in which they could be doing other, more exciting things.
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Old 31 May 2006, 01:14   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...

Your gonna love this mistake I found. BFM is only $45 (unless you're in the UK or something)! Not $75.
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Old 31 May 2006, 01:18   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by FarseerSpacePuppy
Your gonna love this mistake I found. BFM is only $45 (unless you're in the UK or something)! Not $75.
Change made, this makes my point even better!
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Old 31 May 2006, 01:23   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...

actually i believe thet you got some prices wrong (for the 40k stuff)

1:BFM is $45 and comes with a tac squad, 8 genestealers, imperial pilot, 10 termaguants, and 8 spore mines +rule book and dice/measuring stick.

2:Brushes are $8 each so you would be spending $16-$24 on them (at least i would)

3:$30 sounds like a lot (in paints) i mean that is about 10, so if your really slow and detail efficeint i could understand that, but most people arent quite like that so i would say about 20-25 $$$

otherwise it seems that you have everything right, along with all of the entertainment values and such. all in all i do believe that 40k is one of the cheapest hobbies out there (unless you collect in blocks of 2000 points a month) which is rather unusual. plus as long as you like it it adds about 12 hours a week of entertainment (just playing) and then even more so for strategies and of course, THIS WEBSITE which will allow you to share experiences and etc. and i do believe you left out 1 very important thing in your post, human interaction. when you play a video game sure you may meet people online or play with friends from school but the people who actually decide to play 40k meet and become friends with many others like them. all in all proof that Games Workshop is a superior hobby company than many others...
 
Old 31 May 2006, 01:34   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...

I'm sorry, I just feel the need to defend myself...

I didn't list the nid stuff because it didn't apply to the topic at hand, I got 3 brushes for $10 at GW, and for [aints, you have the main color, shoulderpad color, eye red, black primer (thats 10 right there) boltgun metal, bleached bone for purity seals and any togas (like on company champion, ect) gold for Imp. eagle and random medals, you see what I'm getting at.

Thanks about the meeting people, I completly forgot about that!
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Originally Posted by Mage

And Mav is the probably the smartest one of us, so it makes sense.
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My advice is simply walk through life and see what happens, and remember the one thing most of my yearbook from this year is filled with...

"Sex can wait, masturbate"
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Old 31 May 2006, 02:06   #7 (permalink)
lonely tau
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Default Re: Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...

ah yes but the thing you shouldnt forgt about the Tyranid army is that it helps another person to start playing, so you have an opponent that and while your point is very valid on the paints, i can hardly believe you got brushes at GW for $10 i mean man, i get a 20% discount anbd it is still more than that!!! how long ago did you get them anyways?

P.S. i was in no way attacking you, just pointing things out.
 
Old 31 May 2006, 02:23   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...

What I see as the major flaw in your argument lies here, in this paragraph:

Quote:
In games, they average about 30 hours of gameplay without replaying (great games like KOTOR with great relayability and Halo which get great use out up in MP are balanced out by games you buy, hate, and never play). So, that's $60. For a 35 dollar tac squad, you get about 20 minutes of building each guy, (so 200 minutes or 3 1/3 hours). Add 2 hours for actually painting (more if your really good), that's another 20 hours. That's about 23 hours, which is less than gaming. However, the tac squad is almost half as much. For gaming, its $1=.5hours, but for 40k its $1=7/5, or 1.4 hours. And that's just the hobby side. You can spend countless hours dreaming up fluff and army lists, as well as actually playing the game, going to tourneys, etc. There it dwarfs gaming in comparison.
First, the argument for time is epistemologically flawed because you chose to discount RPGs and Strategy games, both of which score a lot more hours than the standard action/platform/fighting game. This is further compounded by the fact that you discount the replayability for video games, but not for 40K.

The argument that really bad games off set this advantage falls apart on two accounts. Firstly, by doing a little research most bad or unlikable games can be avoided. Fifty dollars is a big chunk of money to throw down on a game, and I would hope that most sane people would look into a game before spending that much cash. Secondly you forget to take into account that it's also possible to spend money on a squad or even whole army and not use it because you don't end up liking it. Both purchases cost about the same, why would anyone be more likely to misspend money on a videogame than a troop selection?

There is also the fact that you forgot to take into account video game rentals, something that can't happen for tabletop games. Sure buying a game costs 50 dollars, but for less than 10 you can rent a game and play for 10 to 30 hours. (most rental places stopped putting rpg/strategy games on the shelf because they never get them back.) A rental is a lot more cost effective than pretty much anything else you could spend money on, including 40K.

Furthermore there is the issue of 40k being such a diverse hobby. Sure some people will like design, painting and assembling, and playing, but not everybody will, and any time spent doing something you dislike simply for the sake of getting to what it is you do like is time wasted at best. For example, I hate painting. Sure I love designing armies and playing games, but the 23 hours spent painting would quite frankly better spent having an unnecessary surgery. If you sit down and play a videogame, you can count on it being a lot of the same the whole way through, so it's either all good or all bad, not half and half.

And finally there is the matter of MMO's. I have over a thousand hours clocked on just the one I'm currently playing. They have human interaction, infinite replayability, and continuously expanding content, for less than 15 dollars a month.

There may be a convincing argument for why tabletop wargames are more cost effective than videogames, but this one just doesn't do it for me.
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Old 31 May 2006, 02:30   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...

Sounds like fuzzy math to me, but yes, it is cheaper. Just maybe not that much.
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Old 31 May 2006, 02:59   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Think 40k is an expensive hobby (especially for teens)? Think again...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tech-Commander Archive
What I see as the major flaw in your argument lies here, in this paragraph:

Quote:
In games, they average about 30 hours of gameplay without replaying (great games like KOTOR with great relayability and Halo which get great use out up in MP are balanced out by games you buy, hate, and never play). So, that's $60. For a 35 dollar tac squad, you get about 20 minutes of building each guy, (so 200 minutes or 3 1/3 hours). Add 2 hours for actually painting (more if your really good), that's another 20 hours. That's about 23 hours, which is less than gaming. However, the tac squad is almost half as much. For gaming, its $1=.5hours, but for 40k its $1=7/5, or 1.4 hours. And that's just the hobby side. You can spend countless hours dreaming up fluff and army lists, as well as actually playing the game, going to tourneys, etc. There it dwarfs gaming in comparison.
First, the argument for time is epistemologically flawed because you chose to discount RPGs and Strategy games, both of which score a lot more hours than the standard action/platform/fighting game. This is further compounded by the fact that you discount the replayability for video games, but not for 40K.

The argument that really bad games off set this advantage falls apart on two accounts. Firstly, by doing a little research most bad or unlikable games can be avoided. Fifty dollars is a big chunk of money to throw down on a game, and I would hope that most sane people would look into a game before spending that much cash. Secondly you forget to take into account that it's also possible to spend money on a squad or even whole army and not use it because you don't end up liking it. Both purchases cost about the same, why would anyone be more likely to misspend money on a videogame than a troop selection?

There is also the fact that you forgot to take into account video game rentals, something that can't happen for tabletop games. Sure buying a game costs 50 dollars, but for less than 10 you can rent a game and play for 10 to 30 hours. (most rental places stopped putting rpg/strategy games on the shelf because they never get them back.) A rental is a lot more cost effective than pretty much anything else you could spend money on, including 40K.

Furthermore there is the issue of 40k being such a diverse hobby. Sure some people will like design, painting and assembling, and playing, but not everybody will, and any time spent doing something you dislike simply for the sake of getting to what it is you do like is time wasted at best. For example, I hate painting. Sure I love designing armies and playing games, but the 23 hours spent painting would quite frankly better spent having an unnecessary surgery. If you sit down and play a videogame, you can count on it being a lot of the same the whole way through, so it's either all good or all bad, not half and half.

And finally there is the matter of MMO's. I have over a thousand hours clocked on just the one I'm currently playing. They have human interaction, infinite replayability, and continuously expanding content, for less than 15 dollars a month.

There may be a convincing argument for why tabletop wargames are more cost effective than videogames, but this one just doesn't do it for me.

Your right, I did forget to factor in rentals, but you can counter that by counting barrowed/proxing models (so you can play more and larger games). Also, I didn't man to include MMO's in this article, for both the reason you said (man, my WoW time is rivaling my 40k time ) and the fact that its so different from consol gaming, as well as not nearly aswidely practiced. I wanted to take a widely used hobby (consol gaming). By the way, I might b making one of these for Magic/Yugioh type games as well as baseball cards. Ill keep you poted
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My advice is simply walk through life and see what happens, and remember the one thing most of my yearbook from this year is filled with...

"Sex can wait, masturbate"
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