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Alternate Force Organization Chart
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Old 12 May 2006, 14:06   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Alternate Force Organization Chart

Inspired by another thread I've decided to make a "sliding" force organization chart, much like in Fantasy.

Game size determines how many of each unit type is available making games more balanced (I hope).

Simply look up the point size of the game you're going to play and cross reference the unit category on the chart.

One note, I've included Fast Attack and Elites together on the chart. This is the total number of Fast Attack and Elite choice you can have in your force.

I.e. if you can have up to three Fast Attack/Elite choices if your army has 1 squad of pathfinders, 1 gun drone squad and 1 crisis squad you cannot have any more fast attack or elite choices.

You may never have a total of more than 3 choices from Fast attack.
You may never have a total of more than 3 choice from Elites.



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Old 12 May 2006, 14:36   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternate Force Organization Chart

Good start on the idea.

How about a slight modification on the existing template?

For example:

[table][tr][td]Game Size[/td][td]HQ[/td][td]Elites[/td][td]Troops[/td][td]Fast Attack[/td][td]Heavy Support[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1000pts[/td][td]1[/td][td]0[/td][td]1+[/td][td]0-1[/td][td]0-1[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]1500pts[/td][td]1-2[/td][td]0-1[/td][td]2+[/td][td]0-2[/td][td]0-2[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2000pts[/td][td]1-2[/td][td]0-2[/td][td]3+[/td][td]0-3[/td][td]0-3[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]2500pts+[/td][td]1-2[/td][td]0-3[/td][td]4+[/td][td]0-3[/td][td]0-3[/td][/tr][/table]
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Old 12 May 2006, 14:50   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternate Force Organization Chart

I think it needs more troops. Keeping 2 troops mandatory in anything more than combat patrol is a good idea.

At the same time I think having troops choice limitless isn't a good idea either.

There's some armies that could be somewhat - unscrupulous about that....

Imagine for example a LatD force with 18 five man traitor lascannon squads?

at about 65 points a squad that's a lot of lascannons.

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Old 12 May 2006, 14:55   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternate Force Organization Chart

I personally don't like the idea of limiting the number of Elites at 1k to 0.... I personally would rather swap the Fast Attack choice your allowed for an Elite choice....
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Old 12 May 2006, 14:58   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternate Force Organization Chart

The idea behind Elites is they are just that... Elite.

I mean come on, you're not going to deploy your best soldiers for a minor boarder-skirmish, or a routine patrol.
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Old 12 May 2006, 15:01   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternate Force Organization Chart

I dunno there's something appealing about a small crack team of troops trying to prevail in a small sudden strike.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to allow elites at 1000 points.

That's why I made fast attack and elites come from the same "Choice pool".

It means that while both can be present in smaller games you're really forced to choose which is going to help your force more? The awesome dudes or the fast dudes?
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Old 12 May 2006, 15:17   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternate Force Organization Chart

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The idea behind Elites is they are just that... Elite.

I mean come on, you're not going to deploy your best soldiers for a minor boarder-skirmish, or a routine patrol.
Well, being a Chaos player, I wouldn't mind the chance to use a retinue of fairly cheap Chosen to bolster my Lieutenant. Alternatively, say I want to play with my Slaanesh, but I want some Tzeentch in there too. Same with Khorne/Nurgle. In your system, I'm screwed as to be able to do that. Just a few examples.

But there are certainly more to Elites then just being Elites. Your not factoring in the multitude of possible battlefield conditions. An IG Vet squad has worked into a forward position and the rest of the army is trying to catch up with their forward unit. A Space Marine commander is counting on a devastating teleport attack to finally crush the enemy. Lictors could already of infiltrated the planet, so in your system, your basically ignoring them or saying they don't exist?

Just a few examples as to why I think Elites can be used in 1k points.
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Old 12 May 2006, 17:19   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternate Force Organization Chart

I like it, alot. The only thing I would change is to let people use 1 HQ between 2k and 2500pts if they want.

It also prevents certain chaos armies from getting too nutty in low pt games. Iron Warrior people wouldn't be able to take 4 heavies in small games and Night Lords wouldn't be able to get their extra fast slot. Also Word Bearers wouldn't have the same access to extra troops

Mind if I print this out and post it up next to my gaming table?
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Old 12 May 2006, 17:27   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternate Force Organization Chart

I use Elites even in 500 point games, honestly, while Elite's are meant to be "elite" they are also reflections of experience, not nececsarily "rarity."

For me, switching the Elite and Heavy Support chart makes much more sense.

Quote:
The idea behind heavy support is they are just that... heavy support.

I mean come on, you're not going to deploy your heaviest equipment for a minor boarder-skirmish, or a routine patrol.
For emphasis

Honestly, in term of say, Tau, are you really going to have a Tank, or some Crisis Suits in any given battle considering our "Elites" are things that every Shas'la is working towards and our HQ's actually operate on a 1+ basis. Just like how troops can get a little sketchy when messing with the rules, the other options can too.

For me, Heavy Support is always the last thing I consider most plausible unless the scenario demands a seige of some sort or a mechanized battle (which tends to be of a large point scale on open ground or a seige situation).

Elite=My armies vet's, they are the Troops that aren't fresh, that's the minimum.

Fast Attack is always awkward in this though, it's like a little flavor thrown into most armies. Bikes or Speeders for SM, Pathfinders or Piranha's, Gun Drones even, for Tau. I mean, Bikes are somewhat of a Novelty and Speeders are rare fluffwise. Pathfinders are actually supposed to be elite squads, Piranha's to me are an interesting option (much like SM bikes) and Gun Drones are a novelty, we get them naturally in other selections. Vesipid the same considering their weaponry.

So maybe ANOTHER sliding selection, Fast/Elite in the same pool with Heavy support sharing that pool at higher point values. I would also go in 250 point increments honestly, gives you more oppurtunities to clarify the chart.
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Old 12 May 2006, 17:40   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Alternate Force Organization Chart

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Originally Posted by Fish Ead
I like it, alot. The only thing I would change is to let people use 1 HQ between 2k and 2500pts if they want.

It also prevents certain chaos armies from getting too nutty in low pt games. Iron Warrior people wouldn't be able to take 4 heavies in small games and Night Lords wouldn't be able to get their extra fast slot. Also Word Bearers wouldn't have the same access to extra troops

Mind if I print this out and post it up next to my gaming table?
Hey thanks for the good words Fish Ead! Please feel free to print it up. I've put it online to share with others so if it gets used I'm happy!

As for Word Bearers/night lords/iron warriors I honestly forgot about them when I was making this.

Perhaps Night Lords could take one less heavy to gain access to one more Elite/Fast attack, but they can't have more Elite choices than Fast Attack choices.

Iron warriors could drop 2 Elite/Fast attacks, for one extra heavy support.

For Word bearers they can drop 1 Heavy for +1 maximum troops. They could drop up to two Elite/Fast attack for +1 troop for every choice dropped.

The 2 HQ's at 2000+ points does seem silly, and I guess it should be optional. However my thinking was that it represented a force that large being to unwiedly for a single leader. He would need some assistance from an advisor or underling at the very least. However at that game size many people will use 2 HQ's anyways.

One other thing that I like about this chart is that it will help encourage retinues for characters. Since HQ retinues are usually similar to an elite choice taking them now becomes more appealing, since you have less elites.

0'Den'n

I'm not sure exactly what you were trying to say in your post. However the way the chart is currently constructed Heavy support is the most limited choice.

I'm gonna try using this chart for a few games and see what effect it has.

I'm guessing balanced lists will not have to change anything while other less balanced lists will suffer.
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