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Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P
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Old 17 Nov 2004, 17:10   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P

I just thought I would ask you guys a few questions about some observations I have made.

Heres what I have noticed in battles involving 2 power armored armies. One army always loses spectacularily, while only bringing down few of the enemy models, while the other army mops the floor with the losers.

I don't think I have ever seen a battle where the two armies were hard pressed to make a win, meaning that they were both neck and neck. (I shouldn't say that, I just recently played some games and barely lost one, and barely won the other :P) I have played numerous battles as chaos, played against chaos, and now I am starting Space Wolves.

With Space Wolves, I find its a little easier for me, strangely enough, I almost play better against Khorne. I have come up with 2 draws (with Victory Points) basically, even though I lost one, and won the other, they were both within 100-200VP.

With Chaos, even when I am playing Khorne or Nurgle, my regular opponenant who plays Khorne and made a nurgle list just for fun, always mops the floor with my troops. In his 1000pt Khorne Army he has:

HQ
200+pt Daemon Prince
Blood thirster

TROOPS
2x 8 Khorne Bezerkers (one in a rhino, Daemon Vessal is in here)

HEAVY SUPPORT
Defiler w/ Indirect Fire

and in his 1000pt Nurgle Army:
HQ
~150pt Daemon Prince
Great Unclean One

TROOPS
2x8 Plague Marines

HEAVY SUPPORT
2 Dreadnoughts, one with Plasma Cannon, the other with a Heavy Bolter

Out of both these lists, I have more trouble with the Nurgle list, simply because there are 4 models that* tear through my army. I can never seem to bring enough fire power to take them all out. Against the Khorne list, I have managed to kill all but 6 bezerkers, and his BT.

Before I continue, I must add that I usually make my lists to be "generalised", so that they can take on any army. The only thing is that this one opponenant probably knows this, so he specialises in one thing, and just annhilates me. This is where the cheese comes in. He takes the most powerful Characters/units he can, and minimizes the troops. You can see it in both his lists. They are both quiet small in size, even fore a 1000pt battle, but they are soo effective. I have tried everything short of stooping to his level to beat him, but nothing ever comes out of it, nothing I can take pride in, other then the fact that I am the only person to have actually come close to beating him.

That is what I have observed. The only times I can honestly say that I have aqcuired a solid victory was against a Night Lords army he made, where miraculously, one 7-man strong unit of Grey Hunters and my Battle Leader received charge after charge from a unit of Furies, and 2 Units of raptors, one of which included his lord. The BL ended up dieing, but in the end, I controlled the objective with 3 scouts (originally 5 strong) and 3 Grey Hunters, and I had killed him to a man. Had he killed but one more scout, I would not have been able to control the objective, and even though his army was no longer existant, it would have been a draw.

So could it just be my tactics? is it simply that he reeks of cheese? or have others noticed that Power Armored Armies have weird turn outs when playing against other power armored armies?

I know that depending on which way you look at it, you could be victorious all the time, winning spectacualrily, or you could be losing dramamtically, and barely winning any games. Which way do you see it?

Ender
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Old 17 Nov 2004, 17:24   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P

It all depends on the army and player.

And take 2 power fists in every squad, and some analiators. And vindicators.
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Old 17 Nov 2004, 17:33   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P

Quote:
It all depends on the army and player.

And take 2 power fists in every squad, and some analiators. And vindicators.
Shut up Edwin.

People should never gear their list to a specific opponent.

That said, both of these lists are pure, powergaming filth. Taking a Greater Daemon and a 150+pt Lord is sickening, and he deserves to have said models ramming into his rectum most forcefully.

My suggestion: Go find someone worthy of your skills to play against.
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Old 17 Nov 2004, 17:59   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P

Quote:
Short fuse, little flame, lots of collateral damage.
;D
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Old 17 Nov 2004, 18:00   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P

Hey, I put that there for a reason! ;D
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Old 17 Nov 2004, 18:01   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P

May I suggest a slight ammendment?
Quote:
little flame
:P
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Old 17 Nov 2004, 19:08   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P

This time I have to agree with Wargamer. Encourage your friend to balance his list, let him know that in a tournament he will be scored for his army composition and with a list that is that unbalanced even if he won every battle there is an excellent chance that he would still lose the tournament because of his poor compostion. If that doesn't work stop playing against him.
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Old 17 Nov 2004, 21:20   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aegis Guard
This time I have to agree with Wargamer.* Encourage your friend to balance his list, let him know that in a tournament he will be scored for his army composition and with a list that is that unbalanced even if he won every battle there is an excellent chance that he would still lose the tournament because of his poor compostion.* If that doesn't work stop playing against him.
Not always.

At the GT you use whatever you want, comp has nothing to do with it.

If he won every game a small score for composition wouldant really make a difference.

My advice is to play 1500pts where you will have enough stuff to deal with it. Althow if you use predator analiators and a vidicator and you should still be able to beat him even in 1,000pts.
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Old 18 Nov 2004, 01:16   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P

If you want a list to p**s off that cheesy Chaos player then take 9 Landspeeders with Multimeltas, three squads of 6 Scouts with Sniper Rifles, and a Librarian with some nice powers. Play it as a regular Marine list.

Got those models? Didn't think so. That's an annoying feature of slamming cheesy opponents, it takes freakish lists to do it, which cost mucho deneiro.


I think Edwin's advice is sound though. In general I'm in favour of having squads with Power Fists (or the equivalent) when possible for the flexibility it offers them, and I think that's good against all armies. I wouldn't say it was a case of tailoring. I'd always advocate a Striking Scorpion squad to give their Exarch one, I think they are a good option for Vet Sgts in Tactical Squads who are going to be advancing in a regular Marine list, so if you can fit them in, take them.

Similar for the Vindicator - you'll get plenty of use out of it, it's not just a one-time ace in the hole to beat a cheap Chaos player.

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Old 18 Nov 2004, 03:04   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power Armor VS Power Armor, and cheese :P

ok, i'm gonna say this: good work, edwin. you gave ender some very sound advice. 2 powerfists in every squad is what i always take. they're hardly specialised equipment. i don't tailor my lists if i can help it (tho with wolves, i find i have to at 1k pts). the vindicator is also a good piece of gear...tho its a toss-up between scouts and the vindicator for me. both have some massive potential for me. speeders are also a sounds idea. armed with multi-meltas, they can do some serious damage if you use 'em right

however, first and fore-most, load out on troop. space wolves troops are some of the greatest in the game. they're a major strong point for the wolves list. try for at least 3 max size squads (any combo of hunters and claws you like). and make sure you have at least 3 rhino-mounted squads. cos that doubles their flexibility.

and finally, edwin's other piece if advice, play at 1500 pts, is also excellent. lists in 40k are often designed to hit their peak at 1500 pts, or at least around there. IMO space wolves also show this. its hard to build a really balanced, flexible wolf list with under 1500 pts. so try and up the size of your games, if you can
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