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Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?
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Old 16 Apr 2006, 18:38   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?

I see so many people say that power gaming is wrong, but why ?

If I manage to get together an awesome list that can beat everything but is cheesy, I don't see it like I'm a gay player that must get his head kicked off, but much more like I've put together unbeatable elements of a race which makes my list a pretty hard and competitive list rater than a long to paint and hard to play fluffy army that makes no sense even if we follow the fluff because it is just like if army generals were leading 100 men or so (and this applies to any races) when facing a battle.

WH40k is a game, with a universe, not a universe with a game (at least the way I see it ...) so whatever I use, what ever I do not use, as long as the list is legal (following GW rules), why should someone cry about it's fluff or cheese ?

Also, why a god damn test to see if my army is cheesy or not ? Who do you think you are to graduate my tastes and choices ? If everyone has to be fluffy to play GW board games, this would be an Elite Geek game (and per Elite I mean the smelly, big round glasses, no life, no sex guy watching hentai has porn) which I'm not, and damn this is good to say. This was my two cents about something I really dislike about this web site.

Any other way of thinking ? You can be harsh, so many people are down here anyway (and tend to be more when you told them)
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Old 16 Apr 2006, 18:56   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesuit
I see so many people say that power gaming is wrong, but why ?
becuase it ruins the game, it takes all the fun out of it. if it didn't it wouldn't be powergaming.
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Old 16 Apr 2006, 19:09   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?

It's wrong because some players take Elessar's viewpoint.

40k is a social activity. As in any case of interacting with other people, the best thing to do is check and see (by asking) if you're crossing any lines.
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Old 16 Apr 2006, 19:44   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?

What fun is taken out by power gaming ? If both force facing each other are tuned up lists, the match will for sure be fun, and if not, godlike.

If I face an opponent that I face use a list to beat me up and me the same, there is more challenge, more strategic importance, more everything.

Where I can see the less fun is in a battle between a powergamer and a fluff gamer. One will be effective, the other will cry and win points for paint scheme ... There is nothing worse than facing unfair, unstrong forces build to be *fluffy*. Anyone have ever tried a san-Hannam (I think) fluffy eldar army? If these jetbikes looks cool when well painted, their coolness go away in game wise efficient terms.

I do have more fun when facing cheesy list, as I know there are little place for mistakes for both of us, so I do enjoy powergaming, what's wrong with it then ?
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Old 16 Apr 2006, 19:51   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?

think of it like this: you and your teammates just won a huge baseball tournament. now to be fair, your buds and you have real jobs and like your lifestyles, so you don't go out and practice baseball everyday. now take your good team and go play the New York Yankees. your going to get your asses handed to you. is it because your team is bad? no, its because the yankees specialize in a specific area and you got suckered into that area. they spend hours a day practicing versus your hour a week. now take the yankees to where you work and I can guarantee that they will not do as good a job at whatever it is you do for a living.

Thats powergaming in a nutshell, instead of trying to have the ability to bend and mold to whatever might happen, powergamers see the most threatening things in their armies and try to capitalize on them. like the yankees will min/max their accountants, powergamers min/max their troop choice. and where the yankees will always try to get the best players available, powergamers will always take the three wraithlords in a 1000 point game, or the lysander wing marine list, or the crisis and hammerhead heavy tau.

thats why its always a great day when a powergamer loses to an opponent with a more balanced list, and why its always a great day when the yankees lose. :P
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Old 16 Apr 2006, 19:59   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bladesuit
What fun is taken out by power gaming ? If both force facing each other are tuned up lists, the match will for sure be fun, and if not, godlike.

If I face an opponent that I face use a list to beat me up and me the same, there is more challenge, more strategic importance, more everything.

Where I can see the less fun is in a battle between a powergamer and a fluff gamer. One will be effective, the other will cry and win points for paint scheme ... There is nothing worse than facing unfair, unstrong forces build to be *fluffy*. Anyone have ever tried a san-Hannam (I think) fluffy eldar army? If these jetbikes looks cool when well painted, their coolness go away in game wise efficient terms.

I do have more fun when facing cheesy list, as I know there are little place for mistakes for both of us, so I do enjoy powergaming, what's wrong with it then ?
each to his own. note that i do tend to start wanting to kill people in their sleep when they say that all non powergames are whiners, cry when they loose ect.

there isnt much difference between two fluff based armies facing off, and two powergaming armies. trust me, i know how fun it is to play a really tough game between two tough opponents. i also know how its cool to play a game between themed armies.

but i know that its crap when you get a powergamer vs a fluff army. now if i had the fluff list id decide if i want to play judeged on the person im against. i can apreciate the challenge in fighting a superior army, and i like fighting battles where its a lost cause, but im gonna bring as many down with me as i can.

that said, that only applies so many times. powergaming on certain occasions just isnt welcome. ist downright boring to play an army with min/maxed troops and cookie cutter heavy support/elites. the list just isnt inherantly fun to play against.

so really it depends if im in a competitive mood or not. i try to make lists that are competitive, but dont overstep the boundry of what i feel is powergaming, and is balanced for all commers. then ill take on any powergamer, and give it my best shot.

but it would be nice if both sides stopped making generalisitions. powergaming can only be decided on a player by player, list by list basis. you cant accuse one entire group of people of something in those circumstances
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Old 16 Apr 2006, 20:02   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?

Hmmm, I wouldn't want to go up against an army that could wipe me off the board. I mean, a good commander knows how to win, a great commander knows when it isn't possible to win. Knowing that, If I see an army of super-crazy marines coming at me, I'm not going to want to fight them. There has to be a subtle balance of Winning and Enjoying the game. Thats my 2 pence anyways.
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Old 16 Apr 2006, 20:22   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?

Of course, I don't say throw yourselves at any lost before beginning battles, perhaps power gaming is a style of play, if you dislike it, just don't play with/against, perhaps, if you are competitive, enjoy it.

I do like to win. I do win by being over powered sometimes (when the other player barely fill in 1k points when he is all tuned up but really wants to play 1k because of his new carnini), but this is a game. We both learn, we both exchange and we split a pizza while playing. Is that a bad thing ? Of course I might have no chances to win, then my challenge is to get the money first to buy me the models I need to beat you up next time. That's all.

Of course, getting $$$ isn't that simple.

Perhaps, I don't feel bad when I put together a force that I know that will give a big punch because of my precise focus which will increase my chances of winning. I prefer that to fluffy army playing on rolls and **where is it written I can't, roll 4+**rules to win, and when defeated crying to his mom because I'm tuned up and he is not ...

When I know I can't win, I play my best, because I'm not playing to win, but I am to learn. There isn't much to learn with a fluffy army, except humility.
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Old 16 Apr 2006, 20:34   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?

The best thing to do is make your army the way you want to, and play it.
You're never going to please everybody anyway.
If someone complains about your army being cheesy, then do what I do, switch armies and play again. When you beat him a second time with his own list, then you will have exposed him for what he really is.
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Old 16 Apr 2006, 20:39   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Power gaming, what's wrong with it ?


I'm now going to describe what I feel power gaming is.

It's making an army that isn't realistic in 'the real world', making an army with 2 min troop squads and all elite's and heavy's.
A normal army is half Troops and the rest is specialised. As I would put it, you can't win a war with snipers only or tanks only.

I personally have played some powergamers, and yes I can't win, but I'm not going to change my style because I can't win.
There are other lists I can win from, so it's a balance. Let's all play like normal people and not like baby's (meaning whining when you lose).

Greetz
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