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Flamer Question
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Old 06 Apr 2006, 09:24   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
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Default Flamer Question

I was playing a friend recently and he used his Imolator in an interesting and infuriating way,
He moved it up to a point where I had a group of Guardians that had entered close combat. He then set up his flamer template so that it covered the back row of my force that was not able to move into base to base. I told him that he couldn't fire on a unit in CC, but he informed me that he was actually firing on the unit on the other side of the board, his template just didn't happen to reach that far.

So my question is, IS THIS ALLOWED????

Thank You
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Old 06 Apr 2006, 09:28   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Flamer Question

If it touches the units in CC, then it is not allowed. At least that is what I always led to believe.
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Old 06 Apr 2006, 09:47   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Flamer Question

No you can't claim to be "targetting a target further away". Something in the BGB states that if it is out of range, it misses. Full stop. Yes that is unrealistic, but imagine they check their targetting cogitators, see it is out of range and don't fire.

Believe me, I tried this once, to take out some scarabs with my wraithlord, after blasting the other crons with the star cannon. It is not alllowed.

Plus, You can't fire into CC, simple as that. Guy either does not know the rules, or is blatantly cheating.
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Old 06 Apr 2006, 11:21   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Flamer Question

Don't think you can ever target a unit in close combat unless it's an ordinance template that scatters (Place shell, scatter dice, lands slap bang in middle, Hilarity ensues) and at a pinch, MAYBE the flame MIGHT clip a lone model in close combat, but I think if the template would ever hit a close combat, it cannot be fired that way and would need to be repositioned not to hit anything in close combat becuase it's far too close to freindlies.

As to the exact example, that's even worse. The flame template simply cannot reach that far, so his shot should never have taken place. You can't fire at something out of range, ever. Unless it's a guess range weapon of course, in which case, you could skim it and say guess 48" at that unit over there... but even then, I think thats a bit iffy.
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Old 06 Apr 2006, 21:33   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Flamer Question

Page 22, BGB very top under "check range", the TARGET is too far away for the weapon to hit therefore it automisses!

Page 44, bottom under pile in moves, template weapons may not be placed over locked units UNLESS scattered there.

Clears things up

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Old 06 Apr 2006, 22:33   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Flamer Question

Just to add to the NO! side in this, you also cannot draw line of sight through close combat. They block line of sight up to the hieght of the tallest model. Also as said, if it can't reach the intended target it misses completely.
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Old 06 Apr 2006, 23:39   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Flamer Question

Originally Posted by Crime Prevention Unit 001
Unless it's a guess range weapon of course, in which case, you could skim it and say guess 48" at that unit over there... but even then, I think thats a bit iffy.
Bit out of touch arent we?

You dont actually "guess" anymore. You simply place the shot (be it small blast or Large Blast or Ordanance) over the target, check if its in range and roll your 2d6 + Scatter. I believe that this is one of the reasons why the old school guess rules where changed, to stop people from abusing the rules and dileberatly lobing shots into Combat.
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Old 07 Apr 2006, 00:42   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Flamer Question

Well how about this situation

My Crisis suit wants to use a flamer on a enemy squad that's trying to pile in to a CC but is still a few inches away form the melee . The flamer template is put on the squad to get the most enemy troopers as possible but in doing so it overlaps into the CC covering one enemy completely and partially covers one more enemy trooper(rolled a 4 so he was hit) and one friendly (rolled a 1 so he was safe). How does this end up? Was it legal to use the flamer or not?
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Old 07 Apr 2006, 01:02   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Flamer Question

I'm afraid not. No shots may be into or past CC, so even if it is just a partial on 1 model, that's still too many for the shot to be legal.
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Old 07 Apr 2006, 01:22   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Flamer Question

As mentioned above page 44 of the main rulebook states that you can not place your template so that it covers ANY models in cc period. The ONLY way that a template can end up covering models in cc is due to scatter. Also cc models affected by a template or blast marker do not have to make test for pinning or morale caused by the shooting.
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