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5th Edition Rumors Discussion
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 20:57   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default 5th Edition Rumors Discussion

Here's some of the rumors currently floating around:

From Brimstone of Warseer with additional comments from The Bell of Lost Souls
Quote:
5thí edition 40K is due for release in 2008 although we have conflicting reports about the release date, itís going to be either summer or more probably autumn (GDUK 08).

There will be a new rulebook and new starter set which will be Orks vs marines, it will include both troops and vehicles (a marine dreadnought is likely and possibly others). The 3up grot seen at UKGD í07 is also for the starter box.

Rumoured rules amendments
1. the addition of a Ďruní option (similar to fleet but with a trade off to keep fleet special).
2. Improvements to the cover save rules.
3. Rending toned down (auto wound if you roll a 6 to wound & reduction in effectiveness against vehicles).
4. Template(Blast) weapons rules streamlined.
5. Sniper weapons rules amended (rending probable)
6. Close combat rules amended with a combat resolution phase similar to fantasy
7. Single vehicle damage table.
8. Vehicles without a WS in CC always get hit in the rear armour.
9. Vehicles able to ram
10. Other vehicle amendments
11. Mission rules changed in a similar manner to Apocalypse (no more Alpha, Gamma or Omega).
12. Only non vehicle non swarm troop choices are scoring units (Note I did not say infantry)
13. Vehicles types are adjusted (the rumoured skimmer nerf)

Overall the ruleset hasnít changed dramatically but areas have been clarified, streamlined and in some cases brought closer to 2nd edition. Iíll add to the list as we hear more.

Donít forget these are rumours and should not be treated as the truth.

Compiled by The Bell of Lost Souls from various posters on Warseer

Quote:
Shooting
-There's now a reason to have a BS higher than 5 (can we say 2+/5+?).
-All models friend or foe now block line of sight. Vehicles and Monstrous Creature can be targeted over intervening infantry.
-Area terrain does not block line of sight.
-All blast weapons now scatter.

Vehicles
-Defensive weapons on vehicles are now Str 4 and below.
-Skimmers Moving Fast is now a 5+ cover save. (I have heard this is the new rule for All Obscured Targets)
-Dedicated transports can now carry any unit (subject to normal restrictions, i.e., no Terminators) and are no longer the deathtraps they have been (no entangling, just pinning).
-AP 1 weapons add +1 to the vehicle damage chart instead of doing as they do now.
-Ordinance weapons roll 2d6 and pick the highest on the vehicle damage table.

Miscellaneous
-Independent Character targeting restrictions have been eased.
-There is no IC protection any longer unless he is joined to a unit
-ICs within 2" of a unit automatically join it.
-Dark Eldar are not gone, as they're mentioned in the rules (their jetbikes DO get the 6" assault).
-Frag grenades operate as plasma grenades now.
-Monstrous creatures get move through cover, not a reroll.
-Saving Throws are now made AFTER wound allocation. This means you could still roll all your generic troopers as a group, but will need to roll for each special model (serg, heavy weapons, etc) one by one. Torrent of Fire is gone.

Missions
-The missions are different enough that Troops only counting as scoring isn't as big a deal as it would be today.
-Victory points are calculated differently in "cleanse" style missions (points calculated depending on the FOC slot the dead unit took up).
-Scouts and Infiltrators can now try to outflank the enemy and come on as reserves from a different board edge.
-Deepstrike is the same, but if you can't place all the models, you roll on the "deepstrike mishap" table (50% you're dead, 50% you place yourself anywhere you like).

Overall, the rules look a lot more detailed. Not as detailed as 2nd edition, but now there's a difference between a guy standing on the roof of a building and a guy standing in the basement. Actual line of sight matters a lot more than "pretend" line of sight now.
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 21:15   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: 5th Edition Rumors Discussion

Just.. why? WHY? It's not needed, none of it is, I think we have a perfectly good set of rules, yeah there's a few loopholes, but they can be sorted,
From what I've heard, they are actually 'just rumours'..
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 21:42   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: 5th Edition Rumors Discussion

...why would ALL blast weapons get scatter? Since when did a missile scatter away from a target? And a grenade for that matter? I mean, I'm new to 40k in general, but that has got to be one of the stupidest things I've read today.
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 22:40   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: 5th Edition Rumors Discussion

My top Likes/Dislikes

Likes :

Run Option
Ramming with Vehicles
New Vehicle Chart
Sniper Weapons with Rending

Dislikes :

Can't shoot through friendly models.
Saving throws AFTER wound allocation. Just way more annoying.
Blast Weapons Scatter
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 22:47   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 5th Edition Rumors Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak'Ukos
...why would ALL blast weapons get scatter? Since when did a missile scatter away from a target? And a grenade for that matter? I mean, I'm new to 40k in general, but that has got to be one of the stupidest things I've read today.
Weapons with templates have to land somewhere. When you're frag missile roles a miss how do you know it doesn't land in another nearby unit?

I don't know what all the fuss is about. I'm actually pretty pumped for this new edition (aside from the rule where vehicles w/o a WS get hit on the rear armour automatically in CC. That just doesn't make sense.)

Alot of the items on the lists don't really give any indication of what the changes are, but the Run rule, single damage chart, nerfing rending, ramming rules, and WFB style combat resolution are solid ideas. I think the most important thing I see on there now thoguh is that area terrain doesn't block line of sight. That is undoubtedly the DUMBEST rule GW ever came up with. I put it up there past the spirit stoned holo-falcon even.

I don't really have a problem with the all models blocking line of sight rule as long as models can't block members of their own squad. Other than that little stipulation, it makes perfect sense. Bolter rounds don't magically dematerialize to pass through one enemy and then rematerialize to slaughter the squad behind. 3rd Ed. had LOS spot on.
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 22:55   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: 5th Edition Rumors Discussion

Yeah, but that's no reason to roll scatter on ALL blast weapons.
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 23:26   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition Rumors Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tak'Ukos
Yeah, but that's no reason to roll scatter on ALL blast weapons.
I think they're going to do what a lot of the Specialist Games do.

So let's say your guard squad fires a frag rocket at an enemy squad. They'd roll to hit as normal, first. Let's say that they hit. Yay! They'd place the template as normal and hopefully kill something juicy. Nothing new here. But what happens if they miss? That rocket is going to blow up somewhere, so you grab the scatter dice and see where that rocket lands. Maybe it only scatter 2 inches and still you manage to kill something, but it might scatter who knows how far and might just blow up harmlessly away from the fighting.

It's just adding a little more realism. I never did like when a frag missile missed and just zoomed away harmlessly.

[/speculation]

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Old 14 Jan 2008, 23:33   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition Rumors Discussion

There's good and bad points, but at the end of the day, I am wondering, why bother? There is currently a servicable set of rules, and half of these seem so stupid it boggles the mind.
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Old 14 Jan 2008, 23:37   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: 5th Edition Rumors Discussion

...so, we're going to add another rule for realism? Another step to the process?
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Old 15 Jan 2008, 00:24   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 5th Edition Rumors Discussion

Hey hey.

I'm really against this new edition. I'm not just saying this for the point of being negative, but going by a "If its not broken, don't fix it" stand point. I've been playing since a little bit before the 4th edition, so I haven't been playing an overly large time, but I believe enough to be able to say that 4th edition has not been around long enough.

One thing that really put me down is the friendly squads blocking line of sight, it's going to suck for a lot of armies out there, all infantry guard armies come to mind first. The independent character rules also hurt, sure they make sense (aside from being forced to join, you'd think a commander would have a choice), but now you can't protect the (most likely) most expensive infantry model you have. Unless wound allocations change, it may be easy to target them out even if their in a squad. Oh well.

I guess I'm just going to try to get a lot of games in before fall of this year. Also I was finally thinking of picking up the 4th edition rulebook (still haven't) but not really a point anymore. Also going to look forward to seeing a new starter box instead of BFM. May inspire me to start more armies... Oh wait.. I don;t want that.
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