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Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules
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Old 05 Aug 2005, 17:23   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules

The idea behind this is that the combined Imperial forces have suffered several defeats and the losses have forced them to combine their remaining men, with the Marines leading the Guard.

Officer=Agitator
Imperial Guard=Traitors
Veteran Sergeants=Aspiring Champions
Storm Bolters=Combi-Bolters
MoCU=ATSKNF

Combat Patrol-400pts
Troops
Imperial Guard-13 Laspistols, 13 CCWs, Flamer, Officer (Laspistol, Power Weapon) Veteran Sergeant (Power Weapon, Bolt Pistol, ATSKNF, Infiltrate)-203pts

Imperial Guard-2 Lasguns, Grenade Launcher, Missile Launcher, Officer (Bolter), Veteran Sergeant (Storm Bolter)-107pts

Fast Attack
Sentinel-Multilaser-45pts

Sentinel-Multilaser-45pts
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Old 05 Aug 2005, 17:59   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules

Heya Subzero

Sounds cool to me! I like the idea of using real Guard/Marines and using the Damned rules, even if it's not for Chaos

The list works, but there's a few things:

Traitor squads which do not include an aspiring champion (the veteran sergeant for you) or a transport, may infiltrate. If you take the aspiring champion, the squad may not infiltrate. This has been a long standing problem, but it's just how it is. So if you take the champion with the traitors, they no longer may infiltrate.

The other thing is, that for 400 points, you have 20 actual Traitors here, which is quite expensive when you think about it. Traitors work out when their are much more of them and I would highly suggest the sniper rifle. Small groups of infiltrating traitors with sniper rifles and missile launchers are great, and then having a main traitor squad with the champion with flamers perhaps to be the main troop selection. Though I would suggest dropping the Agitators if you have a Champion in the squad, it's very expensive for nothing really.

Full traitor armies are nice looking, but very difficult to play with because they're even more handi-capped than the real imperial guard. Just wanted to caution you early about this

Cheers!
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Old 05 Aug 2005, 18:53   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules

Huh...I thought that I read somewhere that Traitors could infiltrate if the champion had Infiltrate as a Veteran Skill.

How does this list look?

Combat Patrol-400pts
Troops
Imperial Guard-13 Laspistols, 13 CCWs, Flamer, Officer (Laspistol, Power Fist), Veteran Sergeant (Power Fist, Bolt Pistol, ATSKNF)-210pts

Imperial Guard-8 Lasguns, Sniper Rifle, Missile Launcher-100pts

Fast Attack
Sentinel-Multilaser-45pts

Sentinel-Multilaser-45pts


5 more Traitors, a Sniper to cover the combat squad and 2 Power Fists, which should be enough to take down any important characters.

Another idea I had for LatD is to have the Traitors as Gue'Vesa and the CSM as standard Marines, with Possessed as this sixth caste that symbolised the unity of different races through the Tau empire or something like that.
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Old 05 Aug 2005, 20:14   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules

Subzero:

A while back, people were trying to infiltrate them with their traitors, via the wording, but the latest prints of the Eye of Terror specifically state that only traitors with do not have an attached aspiring champion of chaos or a transport, may infiltrate. So there's no way around it I'm afraid.

The new list looks great to me. The first 15 man team with 2 powerfists is pretty nasty, but they won't last very long. Mutants are actually much more durable for a combat squad, but I would say to try it out and see how they do for you. The 2nd team looks fine to me, taking rear seat. The sentinels are of course great.

I think it'll shape up pretty cool if you stick to your "lost" theme... very nice I'd love to eventually see some images of them.

Cheers!
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Old 06 Aug 2005, 11:53   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules

Mutants do seem to be more durable for a cheaper cost, but they don't make any sense in this kind of army. I might change the single 10 man squad into 2 squads of 5, one with a Sniper and the other with a Sniper and a Heavy Bolter.
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Old 06 Aug 2005, 16:47   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subzero
Mutants do seem to be more durable for a cheaper cost, but they don't make any sense in this kind of army. I might change the single 10 man squad into 2 squads of 5, one with a Sniper and the other with a Sniper and a Heavy Bolter.
You're right; theme wise it's a no go. However, I made the comparison simply to show a point. Mutants are meant to be shot at. Traitors are meant to be in cover somewhere, probably not being shot at, in relatively small bands with ranged weapons. Traitors that are out in the open and walking towards the enemy are usually always the same result: destroyed. Traitors can be a good unit, but take them in short supply. For example, you could take a "militia" squad of un-armed guardsmen (using rules for mutants) but they can take firearms if you want guns. You could have 15~30 of them, however you want, then fill out a few 6 man teams of Traitors with snipers and missile launchers for example. The "militia" (mutants) can take a beating, because T4 makes a massive difference while the traitors pick off a few shots each turn.

Anyhow, it was just a comparison why mutants and traitors are present in the list and do very different things, even though they may seem similar. Traitors just cannot do the in-your-face-shoot-me thing, but mutants can. Traitors can shoot at distance though, and mutants cannot.

Cheers!
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Old 06 Aug 2005, 17:49   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules

The entire of that 15 man Traitor squad is really just a load of meatshields for the two characters (it would also be nice if the Flamer survived, but I wouldn't mind if it didn't), so them being shot to pieces isn't really a concern. I like the militia/mob idea for Mutants, but it doesn't really fit in with the concept of a small group of survivors running around in enemy territory like a headless chicken. Unless somehow they managed to find a village where they could recruit some workers, but most enemies would have probably slaughtered everything in their way so that idea is out too.

What if I take Cultists instead? Cheaper by 2pts each, Ld bonus, probably cheaper overall for MoCU, Veteran skills and a cheaper squad leader, the only problems being that I'd have to either move the Veteran to the other squad or take a Lieutenant instead and that the Cult Leader can't take a Power Fist, but Furious Charge should make up for that.

Combat Patrol-397pts
Troops
Cultist Assassins-14 Laspistols, 14 CCWs, ATSKNF, Cult Leader (Laspistol, Power Weapon, ATSKNF)-120pts

Imperial Guard-13 Lasguns, Sniper Rifle, Missile Launcher, Veteran Sergeant (Power Fist, Customized Bolt Pistol (Daemon Fire and Bolt Pistol))-187pts

Fast Attack
Sentinel Squadron-2 Multilasers-90pts

The cult would obviously be played by Imperial Guard members and the Cult Leader is an Officer.

It means that my Sentinels will be more restricted in terms of position and they can easily be destroyed together and that the Veteran Sergeant is pretty much redundant unless used in a counter attack or if the entire squad dies, in which case he'll probably end up dead too. However, the Cultists are much better than the Traitors but they now lack anything to take care of tough targets and after the first round of combat they'll be largely ineffective. It really depends on whether my opponent uses T3 models or if they have no tanks. I'm going to test at least one of them tomorrow evening.
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Old 06 Aug 2005, 18:53   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules

Damned with allied Alpha Legion is a great choice. Infiltrating cultists are very nice for in-your-face action, compared to the Traitors. Traitors are good for just "being there" basically as they are a very under-powered unit (costing more than normal guardsmen, having less resilience, means bad unit overall). But the damned are supposed to be all about bad units, bunches of scum who are ready to run, etc. It takes a powerful leader to make them stand firm or powerful incentive (dirge casters, demagogues, etc).

Another thing is that the mutant option with fire arms, they can get flamers and heavy stubbers too. So you can model them to totally be a survivor group, not just militia. Just model them as a rag-tag team of burned out survivors with their gear (like some catachans for example mixed with marauders). You could eventually have a massive amount of these guys, just sitting around with flamers and heavy stubbers, entrenched in terrain as they always have. They don't shoot any better than Orks, but flamers don't need BS afterall Just an idea for you. Not to mention you could pay to increase their statline a but, such as the armor save, representing the various cheap armors they stole or took from local places. A mob of 15 "survivors" with 2 flamers and a "elected leader" with a powerfist would run you 121 points. They already have frag grenades and fire arms, 2 flamers and all that. They could totally be a rugged survivor team for you

Overall, I like the combat patrol. The cultists, traitors and sentinels are a good choice, though overall not that resilient, it will be loads of fun
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Old 07 Aug 2005, 14:41   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules

I like the idea on the Mutants, but all of their guns are Lasguns, I have nothing to represent Firearms with. I might use the idea but make a KT with it instead, I could mix in some Traitors with a special weapon and use the better BS for proper shooting and then have that Aspiring Champion with the Power Fist. How does this sound (Cadians = Traitors, Catachans = Mutants):

Task Force Umbra survivors-159pts
Veteran Sergeant Magnus-Bolt Pistol, Power Fist-42pts

Lieut. Davis (Catachan)-Burly, Firearms-9pts

Sgt. Carcer (Catachan)-Burly, Flamer-12pts

Cpl. Anderson (Cadian)-Grenade Launcher-18pts

Cpl. Mathers (Catachan)-Burly, Firearms-9pts

Pte. Verhek (Cadian)-Plasma Gun-18pts

Pte. Marshall (Cadian)-Lasgun-8pts

Pte. Jenen (Catachan)-Burly, Firearms-9pts

Pte. Morgan (Catachan)-, Burly, Firearms-9pts

Pte. Raven (Cadian)-Lasgun-8pts

Pte. Fischig (Cadian)-Lasgun-8pts

Pte. Kieras (Catachan)-Burly, Firearms-9pts
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Old 07 Aug 2005, 15:17   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Space Marines and IG combat patrol using LatD rules

I like the idea of Cadians and Catachans together, all beat up looking, survivors. It's a solid theme and it will be great for L&tD. And in the future should you run with the idea, you'll have the ability to take 180 survivors (6 troops @ 1080 points) and 3 traitors mounted in chimeras (3 fast attack). Can you imagine 200 models for under 1500 points? That would be great! Though painting that... phew...

A kill-team sounds cool to me too. It will allow you to do a lot more with a lot less and have a good time

Cheers!
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