[Odo The Brave]

So I've thought of a few questions about building armies, and I'm looking for some answers. If anybody else has questions, feel free to post in this thread also. Keep in mind I'm playing at low point values, 500-1000 or 1250 tops right now.

1) Are Fast Attack choices really worth the points? They seem expensive and they haven't been pulling their weight for me.

2) Are Chosen a solid Elite choice? They seem to have the ability for a lot of expensive upgrades but that's about it.

3) I've been getting a lot of suggestions to upgrade to Aspiring Whatevers and Special Weapons in my Troops choices. Are they worth the extra points?

Thanks in advance, this will really help me out!

[sionnach19]

Originally Posted by Odo The Brave

So I've thought of a few questions about building armies, and I'm looking for some answers. If anybody else has questions, feel free to post in this thread also. Keep in mind I'm playing at low point values, 500-1000 or 1250 tops right now.

1) Are Fast Attack choices really worth the points? They seem expensive and they haven't been pulling their weight for me.

2) Are Chosen a solid Elite choice? They seem to have the ability for a lot of expensive upgrades but that's about it.

3) I've been getting a lot of suggestions to upgrade to Aspiring Whatevers and Special Weapons in my Troops choices. Are they worth the extra points?

Thanks in advance, this will really help me out!

1) No. In my opinion (and experience) the Chaos fast attack choices are nothing special, and generally over priced. Spawn are garbage (unfortunately), I won't even both picking them apart. Bikers are okay, but you spend twice as much as a normal marine just for an extra toughness boost and some movement benefits... eh... they can work pretty well for some tactics, but overall you can find plenty of other things to their job. Raptors are okay, fairly well priced. Biggest problem with both those two: Unit sizes. Raptor models are expensive ($$$), so it's very hard to acquire a decent squad size (10+) to use on the battlefield. They have the same number of attacks as your basic soldiers anyways, so unlike the Loyalists you have little motivation for them. Bike models cost an arm and a leg, to get a nice big squad of them it can run you close to $100. Generally, not worth it especially when you can find things more durable. Also, neither of them can capture objectives.

2) Chosen are VERY cool with the new outflank rules. I would NOT recommend them if you're trying for a super competitive army, but they're fun. Outflanking CSM's is a reason to take a small unit of them in their own right, if you aren't worried about objectives. As for upgrades, they get VERY expensive. All power weapon or all plasma guns are IMO far too expensive to ever make their points back. All melta is debatable (though coming in from reserves those 5 melta shots will probably pop SOMETHING...). For me, I really like the idea of all flamers. A very affordable squad that is the absolute bane of any infantry unit. Again, they're a fun a characterful unit but not super competitive. Also, if you don't have a clear plan for them, leave 'em home.

3) Special Weapons: I almost always recommend meltas. Hordes you can bolter to death or beat up in CC, while plasmas are expensive and can hurt you back. Meltas give you anti-tank/TEQ which is nice.
Aspiring Champions: I ALWAYS take an Aspiring Champion if I can, and give him a powerfist. Why? Well, the powerfist will give any nasty CC unit pause before assaulting you (even terminators and monstrous creatures have something to fear from S8 power weapons!), and give you solid tank popping abilities (S8 on rear armor is often more than enough). However, there is one reason above all others to take powerfists: Walkers. A 150 point Dreadnought can assault a 300 point squad of Plague Marines, and if the Marines don't have a powerfist they basically can't TOUCH the Dreadnought as it rips them to pieces. Powerfists give you a chance to deal damage against these guys when your infantry normally couldn't, hopefully preventing an expensive or important squad from being tied up in a combat that they simply can't win.

Hope that's what you were looking for If you have any more questions, feel free to ask!

[Odo The Brave]

Originally Posted by sionnach19

Aspiring Champions: I ALWAYS take an Aspiring Champion if I can, and give him a powerfist.

I've been shying away from taking Powerfists, because don't they attack at I1? To me, that seems like a really bad trade-off, despite the Strength boost. I mean, nearly everything strikes faster than I1, so that seems like a big risk to me. I'd rather have a Power Weapon and be assured of an unsavable wound (Barring Inv Saves of course) than be able to take down walkers and Tanks. After all, it's not like CSM armies lack for anti-Tank, and I usually take at least 2 Obliterators so I'm rather content on that account.

[crazyguy832]

Powerfists are worth their weight in gold, my friend. If you're being assaulted (or assaulting) something that can get to your AC and take him out reliably, you're going to be screwed no matter what weapon you take. The only squad I'd really reccomend giving power weapons are noise marines (I5! woohoo!) and, even then, a powerfist can be useful (especially if you're running an Emperor's Children list).

Only needing 2's to wound most things will also fill your heart with glee. After you've been charged by a walker, you'll suddenly be very glad you're not relying solely on krak grenades to take it out (especially if it's an Ironclad).

[Odo The Brave]

Speaking of Noise Marines, are they good? 20 points + the weapons cost seems really expensive to me, especially for troops. Also, is Huron Blackheart any good? He seems like a cool character fluff-wise, but I'm unsure on whether he'd be effective. Maybe with 5 Flamer Chosen in a Rhino, but that would nullify the boon of Outflanking/Infiltrating.

Also, if anyone would like to comment on My latest list, I would appreciate it.

[sionnach19]

Initiative 1 isn't as bad as you might think my friend, as essentially the rest of your squad will act as ablative wounds for your powerfist. All your normal Marines will attack at I4, but those really strong armor-ignoring attacks DO count for something.

Noise Marines are blegh. I don't like them, you spend a loooot of points for them, and they gain no added survivability like Plague or Rubric Marines. I5 is cool, but only useful against some armies. Others you'd strike before regardless, and some will STILL strike before you regardless. Plus, if you wanna get all the cool special weapons, the points really start adding up for them. I'd say leave them home unless you plan on playing strict EC.

Huron Blackheart? I run Red Corsairs, so I've used him a few times. He's OK, but that's about it. He has a rather steep cost for his abilities, but being able to choose between a power weapon or a power fist is nice. The built in Heavy Flamer has some cool tricks, and the fact he can cast Warptime on himself is handy. My biggest issue is his lack of survivability, he still only has a 5+ invulnerable save at T4 which isn't anything impressive. If you decide to use him, he's a fun and solid character. If you're looking for more competitive/better options, there are certainly other things you can take that WILL do better than Huron. Don't get me wrong, he's in no means bad; the CSM codex just has better to offer.

If you put the 5x Flamer Chosen in a rhino, they still keep outflank as well (they just have to outflank in their transport). Still definitely a problem unit, and you have an impressive 12" move + disembark + flamer range on the turn you arrive to kill things. I like them on foot, since they can charge straight onto the board, but a rhino is still a very viable option.

I'll check the list out when I get back home