Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

how do deal with the Lash
Reply
Old 20 Jan 2009, 05:59   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 436
Default how do deal with the Lash

A good question that was asked about how to deal with the lash of submission with a none psyker army.

The Lash requires Line of sight.

It has no effect against vehicles.

So here are some of the things I thought of on top of my head.


1. Mechanized Army lists are my favorite lists to run against the lash (as well as nids)

2. Screening your infantry with vehicles against those Daemon prince(s ).

3. Shooting the hell out of the Daemon princes with long ranged weapony. When playing Tau, it is 9 broadsides for the win.

4. Assault the DP with multiple squads to tie it up in close assault. The DP might get one of your squads but not all of them. I like to use my Daemonettes ( or Gene steelers if I'm playing Nids.) and just over-overkill a DP.

5. Orbital Bombardment!.

6. Lash the Lasher with your own Lash of Submission (as well as pavane). Yes this actually happened.

So, are there other ways of dealing with the Lash?

__________________
As many Evil people have said before me, WELCOME TO YOUR DOOM!
Daemonette Embrace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Jan 2009, 06:17   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 218
Send a message via AIM to Sinsparagon
Default Re: how do deal with the Lash

Dreadsock.


That aside, daemons of Khorne can negate (if I remember correctly) psychic powers.

9 Broadsides? that's a bit harsh.
__________________
World Eater: Knock knock.
Gaurdsmen: Who's there?
World Eater: BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!
Sinsparagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Jan 2009, 06:26   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 483
Default Re: how do deal with the Lash

only heralds and thirsters.......maybe crushers....maybe

lash is a good power, but it's not as great as 'teh interwebz' would have you believe.

yes it can be a pain, especially when combo-ed with oblits/vindi's, but if it's a prince, well heavy weapons do actually hurt them, seeing as area terrain is no longer blocking line of sight, blast it, or blast what it's combo-ed with.
adreal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20 Jan 2009, 12:59   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,663
Default Re: how do deal with the Lash

Two words: Target Priority.

A typical Lash army (if it's being done right) consists of two Lash Princes (Slannesh, Wings, Lash), at least one Vindicator (normally two), at least one Obliterator Cult (typically two models), at least one unit of Plague Marines and a couple units of Khorne Berserkers in Rhinos (or one in a Land Raider).

The army works together to follow the following pattern: 1 ) Prince lashes an enemy unit both forward and closer together. 2 ) Vindicator and/or Obliterators shoots said unit. 3 ) Berserkers charge said unit with Prince. 4 ) Plague Marines hold objectives.

From my perspective, there are four very clear targets in this army. Wiping out any one of these targets will cause the system to begin to fail. Wiping out two will cause a meltdown.

Daemon Princes with a load of Wounds, speed, close combat domination, and decent saves on their sides - dropping these bad boys is going to be hard. If you've got a unit of moderate to high strength power weapon wielders (i.e. Lightning Claws, Khorne Bloodletters)...here's your target. A unit of Loyalist Terminators with 2 x Thunderhammers & 3 x Lightning Claws would do the trick nicely. The Prince can attack with you with about 2 x wounds per turn and your Storm Shields can soak these up. The Lightning Claws can dump out 3-4 wounds in a turn. The Thunder Hammers can clean up the mess. Loads of AP3 or better weapons can work well too. This is especially the case if we're talking Eldar Starcannons or some weapon with a decent strength and a range of greater than 24" (or mounted in a vehicle).

Vindicators (or Defilers) These are vehicles. Think about that. Vehicles. Vehicles are rediculously easy to kill (compared to Daemon Princes). Drop a melta unit or a chainfist or a Bright Lance on the unit and crack it open. You've got a decent chance of at least preventing the unit from firing...maybe even taking out that pesky Battle Cannon or Demolisher cannon. My opinion is that cutting the foundation of firepower out from under a Lash list is the #1 priority (#2 if your Eldar as the Daemon Prince is faster).

Berserkers Two words: Charge them. Take your biggest, baddest close combat unit and charge them outright. This does two things: 1) it throws your opponent psychologically backwards. No one expects to have their Berserkers charged. But this really isn't such a bad thing to do. Sure they've got 3 attacks each. But if you've got a higher initiative or better armor - you can handle it...especially if you have Power Weapons or some other goody that will make them drop quickly. 2) It kills them...dead. Berserkers aren't anything special when it comes to surviving close combat. They're like Loyalist Vangard Assault Marines...but slower. Their real power is in the pesky Furious Charge rule that makes their volume of attacks suddenly awful to deal with. If you can't charge them, then shoot them. They are slow once you kill their transport. So pop the Rhino then fire & fall back - keeping them outside of that dreaded 12" range.

Plague Marines Two words: Ignore them. Unless they've got a Rhino - they won't be a threat. Plague Marines are, in my opinion, one of the most under-rated units in the Chaos Space Marine list. They can shoot - they can charge - they can hold objectives like no other unit. But honestly, if you're dismantling the rest of the list - you probably won't have time for these guys. If they do get put on an objective - well, then you can smoke them with power weapons or AP1/2 weapons. But do not ever, ever, ever charge them without the following: 1) loads of attacks, 2) power weapons 3) offensive grenades. Plague Marines literally laugh off standard close combat attacks and small arms fire. So you need to specialize to kill them.

So there you have it. Break a Lash army be killing the fire base then killing the Princes then killing the Berserkers. This is best done through either close combat specialization (with durable power weapon wielding units) or ranged specialization (with lots of AP3 or better weapons). Small arms and "normal" units will probably be eaten alive.

Hope this helps.
Aureus

Some very useful tactics Aureus. +1 Karma - Anton
Farseer_Emlyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 Jan 2009, 07:39   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 436
Default Re: how do deal with the Lash

Quote:
A typical Lash army (if it's being done right) consists of two Lash Princes (Slannesh, Wings, Lash), at least one Vindicator (normally two), at least one Obliterator Cult (typically two models), at least one unit of Plague Marines and a couple units of Khorne Berserkers in Rhinos (or one in a Land Raider).
Agreed, which is why none of my chaos armies are made in this manner. After Awhile you get to see the more common patterns of army composition and you deal with it accordingly.

bty great summery.
__________________
As many Evil people have said before me, WELCOME TO YOUR DOOM!
Daemonette Embrace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 Jan 2009, 17:57   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Sayville, NY
Posts: 722
Send a message via AIM to xShaperx
Default Re: how do deal with the Lash

I just use it to keep assault terminators wandering around the battlefield and not doing terrible things to me with their thunder hammers and storm shields.

And I really hate hearing complaints about it. On a sorcerer, hit him with a krak missile or a powerfist. Game over. On a Daemon Prince? Bolters. Or a single Space marine captain. 5+ invul, he eats the dirt by the 2nd turn.
__________________
I love the smell of promethium in the morning

Shas'ui Kel'shan Mont'au Mal'caor: The Terror Spider of Kel'shan

www.myspace.com/nathanhotdog
xShaperx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 Jan 2009, 18:50   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: The Buckeye State
Posts: 164
Default Re: how do deal with the Lash

@ Aureus - Are Bondzy and I going to have to deal with this in our game? If so you told us just how to make your army list bleed out like a stuck pig.

Also, on the lash (mainly because I know nothing about it) can it be used every turn? Or is this just something you can use once and beat the tar out of an army quickly and effectively?

F-C
__________________
Battle Group Erratus - Bringing death and destruction to the 41st Millenium

Reductor General Aetos and the Ad Mech - Ordnance like rain.

Wins Losses Draws
Ad Mech 0 3 2

"He attacked everything in life with a mix of extraordinary genius and naive incompetence, and it was often difficult to tell which was which." - Douglas Adams
Full-choke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 Jan 2009, 19:04   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 7,663
Default Re: how do deal with the Lash

Firstly, thanks Anton, for the cookie.

Quote:
bty great summery.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xShaperx
And I really hate hearing complaints about it. On a sorcerer, hit him with a krak missile or a powerfist. Game over. On a Daemon Prince? Bolters. Or a single Space marine captain. 5+ invul, he eats the dirt by the 2nd turn.
Which is exactly why you never see a Lash army with just Sorcerers. For the record, it takes about 54 Bolter shots from Marines to down a Prince (54 shots, 36 hits, 12 wounds, 4 failed saves). I doubt many players are willing to commit that sort of firepower to single model. Especially when most Lash armies have two Daemon Princes.

You're right, though, that people shouldn't complain about it. It's a tough list but not an impossible one. I would love to sit across the table from a double Lash list with my Eldar skimmer army. But the same list would decimate my Nurgle Marines by probably turn 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full-choke
@ Aureus - Are Bondzy and I going to have to deal with this in our game? If so you told us just how to make your army list bleed out like a stuck pig.
Nah, I won't run it because it's Slannesh. Although, I make no promises about Puppyeater. I don't know what he's planning on. But if he does run it, feel free to dismantle it. :P

Quote:
Also, on the lash (mainly because I know nothing about it) can it be used every turn? Or is this just something you can use once and beat the tar out of an army quickly and effectively?
It can be used every turn. So the typical format is to fly your Prince to within Lash range of a unit, lash that unit forward (towards the Prince's force) and closer together (preferably within a single pie plate) then use Blast weapons and/or a strategically placed charge to eliminate the unite completely.

Alternative strategies sometimes use Thousand Sons for thier AP3 weapons & potential Winds of Chaos or Noise Marine for their plethora of ranged weapon options. But the fundamentals of the list are almost always the same: two Lash Princes, some Large Blast weapons and then Cult Troops to bulk it out.
Farseer_Emlyn is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another question about Lash... Deaths_Face Forces of Chaos 35 19 Jul 2009 10:28
DP lash? we're tau, whats the big deal? Tausand sun Tau 48 13 Feb 2009 06:12
Lash vs. Kharn Jeff Forces of Chaos 84 18 Jan 2009 10:37
Thoughts on the Lash korik1 Forces of Chaos 57 03 Feb 2008 19:59