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Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 00:34   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list

I was reading up on Ahriman's background and I'm a little interested in possibly building a Chaos army one day (probably not anytime soon), based on Ahriman and his cabal of sorcerers. It seems pretty straight forward for the most part, I assume Ahriman would have some Rubric Marines and I'm taking him and another sorcerer for my HQ, but I had a couple of questions in regards to other units.

Would Ahriman use summoned daemons? I don't see anything in his background suggesting otherwise and a TS army would be a perfect excuse for me to save up for a FW Lord of Change when it's finally finished. I'm also thinking about taking a 9-man squad of chosen to represent some of the talented cultists he's stolen away, and I'm not sure how best to equip them and keep with the theme (and also if I should take two squads or just the one, as I thought about maybe taking a dreadnought also). Troops are all Rubric Marines, and I'm thinking of maybe taking a predator or vindicator (or both) for heavy support.

I'd appreciate any advice and I'll post up a list whenever I get one written.
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 01:58   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list

The one problem with an all thousand sons army is hordes though. The pred may work for antihorde. Ahriman would use summoned daemons if tzeentch wanted him too. i would not used possessed in this army. Also do not use chaos spawn as that would not make much sense because thousand sons hate mutation.
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 02:04   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list

Yeah, I figured as much about possessed and spawn...the daemons are kinda grey though, Magnus's ascension to daemonhood is apparently what finally drove them to cast the Rubric, for fear of losing their humanity. I imagine they would still use daemons, but didn't know for certain.

I kinda wanted to mix possessed and CSM parts for the chosen though, but like you said, mutated armor wouldn't make much sense if they hate mutation. Maybe instead of chosen I could field some Rubric terminators and take regular CSMs with the Icon of Tzeentch or something. As for anti-horde, I kinda wanted to take a bunch of flamers anyway and I guess a predator with heavy bolters wouldn't be a bad idea.
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 02:29   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list

I am not sure if this could be possible you could mix rubric marines and chaos space Marine parts to make your chosen. I do not know how the rubric marines are put together but this could be an idea. just possessed do not work well with thousand sons. I think daemons are OK. I think in the new 4th edition the use of daemons can be supported by "over the millenia Ahriman has sought out magical artefacts, ancient arcane books talented phskers and any aspect of sorcererous knowledge or power." Obviously daemons are a sorcrerous biengs as an indication that daemons can be used. I think lesser daemons would at least be possible to use. I have a small worry on greater daemons because the taking over and possessing of a body can be seen as rapid mutation.
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 05:06   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.ph...=72451.new#new

Army list.
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 05:54   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list

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Originally Posted by Doctor Wu
The one problem with an all thousand sons army is hordes though. The pred may work for antihorde. Ahriman would use summoned daemons if tzeentch wanted him too. i would not used possessed in this army. Also do not use chaos spawn as that would not make much sense because thousand sons hate mutation.
I would say Ahriman hates mutation. I don't know if the Thousand Sons had a say in the whole Rubric thing, I mean, their primarch has one eye, and Tzeentch is the Lord of Change!
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 19:50   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list

What's with all this hating on mutation? It's Thousand Sons stereotype, but limited STRICTLY to 1k Sons. Any other Tzeentch loving warband would be quite fond of change and mutation, I imagine. I always figured if I played a Tzeentch army that I would throw in a unit of possessed to represent those that fell to the Great Changer of Ways, sorta like Spawn.

Rubric Marines are a staple, but shouldn't be your total fighting force. They are lacking a bit in close combat so some standard Marine squads offset this. If you made Chosen, I would make them infiltrating/combat based to counter-act your 1k Sons shooting.

1k Sons definitely do demons, you don't survive very long on a demon world if you can't get a long with them. Most Chaos warriors use demons, at least as tools in the long run. Put it this way, demons are the equivalant of Chaotic IG in fluff terms. Chaos Marines themselves can't hold a planet, they are too few in number. However, if the proper resources are given a portal can be opened and Demon Legions appear, providing a signifcant number boost to the Chaos Marines themselves.
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Old 23 Sep 2008, 09:58   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list

Interesting...but in an army led by Ahriman there wouldn't be any mutated Marines, right? It is a TS army after all.

As for the Rubrics, they're pretty damn expensive, too. I'm thinking maybe I have too many at 3 squads, maybe I could take one out and take some daemons/regular CSM instead.

Also, I might give the infiltrating chosen two flamers instead of a flamer and plasma gun, makes them more close-assualt oriented.
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Old 23 Sep 2008, 19:51   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list

Ahriman and the 1k Sons are two different entities. In all honesty, I believe the 1k Sons to be more like the World Eaters: They fractured long ago and really don't fight as grand armies together at this point like the Black Legion does. Consider this, the 1k Sons Legion doesn't really even exist anymore. You have a large number of sorcerers ordering around haunted shells of Space Marines. Sorcerers are some of the most fickle warriors of Chaos out there, since they constantly try to improve and gain power, especially through backstabbing and the likes. There is no way that a 1k Sons sorcerer could remain loyal to the Legion and amount to a great number of power, it is by backstabbing others, making alliances with different renegades, and dealing with demons that the sorcerers grow in power.

With a strict 1k Sons army, I figure the amount of mutation would be non-existent. However, Ahriman is NOT with the 1k Sons. He's actually been exiled from them, so accompanies other legions, warbands, and even some of his former brothers into battle to gain favors and more knowledge. He's out for himself, not anyone else. Therefore, an army led by him would not be adverse to using mutations or any other tools to accomplish their missions. I still think a squad of 1k Sons that were terribly mutated (Possessed?) before the Rubric of Ahriman would be something really cool on the battlefield. Sort of a constant reminder of what the 1k Sons almost became. That's just my personal preference, and since possessed and Spawn are in no way comptetive units it's easy to leave them out of an army list.
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Old 25 Sep 2008, 05:24   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Planning a Tzeentch/Thousand Sons army list

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Originally Posted by sionnach19
Ahriman and the 1k Sons are two different entities. In all honesty, I believe the 1k Sons to be more like the World Eaters: They fractured long ago and really don't fight as grand armies together at this point like the Black Legion does. Consider this, the 1k Sons Legion doesn't really even exist anymore. You have a large number of sorcerers ordering around haunted shells of Space Marines. Sorcerers are some of the most fickle warriors of Chaos out there, since they constantly try to improve and gain power, especially through backstabbing and the likes. There is no way that a 1k Sons sorcerer could remain loyal to the Legion and amount to a great number of power, it is by backstabbing others, making alliances with different renegades, and dealing with demons that the sorcerers grow in power.

With a strict 1k Sons army, I figure the amount of mutation would be non-existent. However, Ahriman is NOT with the 1k Sons. He's actually been exiled from them, so accompanies other legions, warbands, and even some of his former brothers into battle to gain favors and more knowledge. He's out for himself, not anyone else. Therefore, an army led by him would not be adverse to using mutations or any other tools to accomplish their missions. I still think a squad of 1k Sons that were terribly mutated (Possessed?) before the Rubric of Ahriman would be something really cool on the battlefield. Sort of a constant reminder of what the 1k Sons almost became. That's just my personal preference, and since possessed and Spawn are in no way comptetive units it's easy to leave them out of an army list.
First off sionach it was Ahriman that led the rubric to stop the mutation even when most others were against it. Form the codex "Ahriman was the foremost of the sorcerers to decry this turn of events." referring to the mutation. I doubt even Ahriman's belief could change so much from fearing mutation enough to risk the lives of his entire legion with the rubric to actually accepting it. It does not matter that he is not part of the thousand sons he still had the most Strong of the anti-mutation beliefs. I doubt airhiman will accept that. To be that is basically to have no beliefs or personal philosophy. Also there will be aspiring sorcerers in his thousand sons squads which he may not want to risk losing from offending the thousand sons sorcerers. Where in fluff does it say that Ahriman has total abandoned his beliefs on mutation after being so much against it. That an insane level of hypocrisy.
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