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1st 5th ed tournament (Team)
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Old 03 Aug 2008, 17:59   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Default 1st 5th ed tournament (Team)

My wife and I attended a team tournament yesterday. I had 1k of Chaos Space Marines, and she had 1k of Chaos Daemons, so that seemed to make some sense.

My 1k (Emperor's Children) was:

Winged Lash Prince
10 noise marines w/ sonic blasters (champ w/ powerfist), in rhino
5 noise marines w/ blastmaster in rhino
6 noise marines w/ blastmaster in rhino
2 obliterators.

Her 1k was:
Herald of Slaanesh on Chariot, w/ +Strength & Icon (a)
12 seekers of slaanesh (a)
6 fiends of slaanesh (a)
Soulgrinder w/ Tongue attack (a)
8 daemonettes (b)
8 daemonettes (b)
9 daemonettes (b)

(In all games, we asked for, and received, the units marked 'a&#39

The missions were all primarily Straight 5th ed missions, with bonus points for accomplishing other things.

Round 1:
Mission: (The one where there's one objective in each deployment zone)
Deployment: Dawn of War

Opponents:

Our opponents were a couple of guys that I'd played in a previous tournament. They had an interesting idea for their team, all based on messing with your leadership.

Necrons:
Deceiver
2x 10 warriors
5 pariahs
2 heavy destroyers
Tyranids:
Broodlord + 8 stealers
3x 8 stealers (w/ scuttlers)
3x psychic scream + warp blast zoanthropes

Due to the deployment rules, they started with the deceiver and 2 units of warriors on the table, we started with a blastmaster unit, its rhino, and the prince.

This was such a one-sided battle. We stole the initiative from them, and brought on all of my units, and landed our A-team daemons. My Lash Prince pulled one necron unit forward and bunched it up. Blastmaster dropped 5 of them with no WBB, plasma cannon knocked out another 4.

Their turn, they brought on heavy destroyers and zoanthropes, and knocked a gun off a rhino. Genestealers are all off in reserve still. On our second turn, the seekers killed the rest of the necron warriors, and we dropped one zoanthrope. The necron player phased out, and left us shooting genestealers as they came on one unit at a time from the table edges. Full points for us.

Round Two
Mission: Loot Counters
Deployment: 12" from table edge

Opponents:
Team Waaagh-Panzee.
The ork player had two units of 10 nobs (2 powerklaws, painboy, cybork bodies) in trukks, a warboss, and a looted wagon full of grots.
The eldar player had a brightlance serpent full of dire avengers, a falcon with fire dragons, 5 pathfinders, 10 other dire avengers, and a farseer w/ runes of stuff.

This was really just a battle to kill the nobs. The eldar player had deployed somewhat poorly and did little more than shoot up rhinos. The nob squads proved to be ridiculously hard to kill though. At one point we charged all our fiends, and 21 noise marines into a unit of nobs and barely won the combat. Fortunately, the soul grinder held up the other squad for far longer that it should have, and that bought us time to bring help to bear there. At the end, only the eldar skimmers survived, and one was immobilized, so we got another full points.

Round Three
Mission: Kill Points
Deployment: Table quarters

Opponents:
Two ork forces. One battlewagon with 20 boyz in it, 5 more squads of 20-30 each, snikrot&kommandos, 2 units of 5 lootas, a forcefield mek and a warboss on a bike.

This is a tough army to face, especially for kill points. We held them back early, deploying as far back as possible, firing our blast weapons at them. The soul grinder immobilized their battlewagon back near their own lines. They charged it, but it took the second assault phase to hit the wagon again, and exploded it. It held up that corner until the final turn, when their powerklaw finally dropped it.

Snikrot tried to spoil our fun. He got in and hit the seekers with his unit's two flamers, killing 8 of them. But, then he tried to charge them and my daemon prince together and while he landed two wounds on the prince, his side lost combat and were cut down the turn they charged.

We killed one squad down to the last two guys, they failed thei Ld, but the nob killed the boy to try again and passed, and then went and hid. This happened with one of the loota units too. And, with 4 other squads of 30 boyz rushing us, it just wasn't going to be effective to spend one long-range shot on killing one ork who'd get a 4+ cover save anyway. As they got closer, we tried to stall them by charging daemonette units in. While we killed more of them than they killed of us, our units were 8 big and theirs were 30. At the end of the game, they'd killed more units. Had the lone guys failed their Ld checks, we'd have taken the win.

So, end of day, 2 wins, 1 loss. With appearance and sportsmanship, that was enough for a second place finish and we got a couple of squad boxes for our efforts (that are going towards a christmas present for SparkeyG's son - he's getting his first army).


Thoughts on Competative 5th ed

The game feels more luck based. If you make your 4+ saves, you're golden. Without last-man-standing, or even Ld penalties for being below half strength, it's very hard to really break units with shooting. Assault, on the other hand, is so easy to break enemies, or at least force them to take a bunch of extra saves.

I really don't like being able to take casualties from outside the combat killzone. And, I think kill points are the worst part of the new system. Killing 30 orks should not be worth the same as killing one rhino, and killing 29 orks is worth nothing.
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Old 03 Aug 2008, 23:09   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1st 5th ed tournament (Team)

Nice compilation of the tournament. Sounds like you did very well too (so close to winning third round ay ohh well next time ). Tell me were the orks really frustrating to verse (I thinking of collecting) or were they really fun.
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Old 03 Aug 2008, 23:29   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 1st 5th ed tournament (Team)

They were pretty challenging. I don't know that having a huge wave of guys charge at you is fun, but I've been on both sides of that. I think that the new 5th ed rules really really favour the orks.

1) Their troops are their best units - 5th ed rewards taking troops, and you need strong troops to hold objectives.
2) They run big units, so they don't give up many kill points in KP missions.
3) They benefit more than any other army from the proliferation of 4+ cover saves.
4) They benefit more than any other army in being allowed to take casualties from anywhere in close-combat. Without the ability to clear killzones,
5) They benefit more than any other army by having the ability to run.


The green tide is a list that works by overloading its opponent's ability to deal with infantry. If you go to an all-comer tournament, you're either going to struggle dealing with orks, or you're going to struggle dealing with any vehicle-heavy lists. It's seriously difficult to make a list that can both kill 4 landraiders and also kill 180 orks. Most lists cannot handle either extreme.

The only real limiting factor is that very few people have the patience to paint 200 orks, which should keep the numbers down in tournaments. Most of the strong-4th-ed armies were based around small model-count armies, which it is easy to build and paint. You can paint six carnifexes in an afternoon if you set your mind to it. Same with eldar skimmers. Not so with an ork horde, you really need to dedicate yourself to the task.
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Old 04 Aug 2008, 17:21   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 1st 5th ed tournament (Team)

I'm thinking that the key to dealing with Orks and vehicles with the same shooting is to use templates. I haven't played enough 5th edition to be certain of it though.
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Old 04 Aug 2008, 18:14   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 1st 5th ed tournament (Team)

You mean flamer templates? Or blasts?

Templates avoid the cover issue, but they don't kill enough to prevent the horde from descending upon you. Even if you catch eight under the standard flamer template, that's only an average of 4 kills.
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Old 04 Aug 2008, 18:21   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 1st 5th ed tournament (Team)

Both really, use the pie plates vs. the mobs you can catch w/out cover saves (due to tall tanks like Soul Grinders or Lemans on hills), these are also good anti-tank, as ordnance tends to cause lots of pens. Use the flamers instead of charging, after lash/pavane clumping and really mess em up. The new template rules are unkind for units hit with multiple templates.
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Old 04 Aug 2008, 19:40   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 1st 5th ed tournament (Team)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 40kenthusiast
Both really, use the pie plates vs. the mobs you can catch w/out cover saves (due to tall tanks like Soul Grinders or Lemans on hills), these are also good anti-tank, as ordnance tends to cause lots of pens. Use the flamers instead of charging, after lash/pavane clumping and really mess em up. The new template rules are unkind for units hit with multiple templates.
But there aren't that many units that can pull off the multiple template thing, and it's seen from a way off. The orks will use lootas to shoot them, or bike-warbosses to range out of the throng and tie up the flamers before the flamers get a chance to cause too much damage, unless you're Lash/Pavaning them.

I don't see Lemans as good anti-tank either. S8 just doesn't do it, even if you get to take the higher of two dice.

If the tournament I attended was any indication, you need to bring higher than S8 guns to handle tanks, and even then, maybe not. One team had 4 landraiders. Two others had at least two. I've seen the Landraider spam ideas bounced around on a handful of forums (including my EC version). If you can't handle AV14 in 5th ed (and reliably) you're going to have a hard time, because it seems to be going that way.

I thought that blastmasters and obliterators would make more of a dent than they did, while also providing decent anti-tank support, but those 4+ saves really keep so many boyz alive.
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Old 05 Aug 2008, 19:15   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 1st 5th ed tournament (Team)

Quote:
The game feels more luck based. If you make your 4+ saves, you're golden. Without last-man-standing, or even Ld penalties for being below half strength, it's very hard to really break units with shooting. Assault, on the other hand, is so easy to break enemies, or at least force them to take a bunch of extra saves.

I really don't like being able to take casualties from outside the combat killzone. And, I think kill points are the worst part of the new system. Killing 30 orks should not be worth the same as killing one rhino, and killing 29 orks is worth nothing.
Luck, yes that is correct. The changes to the rules promotes hoards armies. In my region the armies that have an easier time in winning are Orks, TyraNids, and IG. To a lesser extent Dark Eldar.

They have the model count and the fire power to beat down smaller model count armies.

I mean 6 points for ork and a FREE +4 cover save, that EVERYONE is going to take advantage of.

Adapt your Army lists to your playing style of your region, and remember to try to have fun.

Good report Red Beard and you are lucky to have a wife to game with you.
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Old 05 Aug 2008, 20:22   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: 1st 5th ed tournament (Team)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemonette Embrace
Good report Red Beard and you are lucky to have a wife to game with you.
This is the truth. Of course, I met her gaming (at a Larp) so I knew that going in...
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