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Two Questions
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Old 19 Jul 2008, 07:41   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Two Questions

Do basic CSMs get two attacks in close combat for having two close combat weapons? And shouldn't there be a sticky for short questions like this?

Oh, and are vindicators any good? It seems like it's probably worse than a defiler, but it good really ruin some terminator's day.

Subject Title changed, "Stupid" isn't very appropriate neither does it relate to the questions you're asking - Anton.
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Old 19 Jul 2008, 08:52   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Two Questions

First, you've been around the site long enough to know where things should be posted. If it was a mistake, that's fine, it happens, but pay closer attention next time.

Second, yes, CSMs get 2 attacks for having two close combat weapons. It's one of the most basic rules of the game as far as wargear goes. We typically don't start stickies answers to common sense questions that are quite clearly stated in the main rules.

Are vindicators good? Well, it depends. They're good as far as any unit can be good in a certain situation. It depends on the opponent and the situation. If you care to elaborate on that I'm sure myself and others will be willing to give you more specific advice. As it stands, the responses are going to be about as vague as the question.
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Old 19 Jul 2008, 12:13   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Two Questions

With the Vindicator Question, if you are comparing the vindicator to a defiler interms of efficiency, economicaly safe (point cost), and all the stuff in between it depends.

Here i'll explain:

Vindicator:
Pros.
The vindicator is cheaper.
It has better armour.
It has a stronger cannon.

Cons.
Cannon is short ranged
Only now has a 45 degree arc of fire.

Defiler:
Pros
Main cannon can go far further
Has the ability to do close combat with the enemy.
Has the fleet Rule, there fore it can close in far quicker than a vindicator

Cons
Weak (actually probably shameful) armour value.
More expensive
Even though it can have other weapons the 5th Ed rules restrict the usage of all the Defilers weapons.

Well thats pretty much all there is to it. Me personaly the vindicator will hold its own far better in a heavy weight fight than a defiler. The only thing the defiler is really good at is killing horde and possibly marine... Why? because not only can it drop pie destruction on your foes but it can hold up units in CC but it tends to get blown up before that ever happens. However in virtually all other situations play it safe and get a vindicator its sturdy, strong and more deadly in my opinion.
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Old 21 Jul 2008, 05:58   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Two Questions

I agree with most of what Kharvol has mentioned except for :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kharvol
Has the fleet Rule, there fore it can close in far quicker than a vindicator
I don't see that as a pro, yes it can fleet but its a walker so it can only move 6' max in the movement phase. But the Vindicator can also do that while firing its main cannon and can also move up to 12' although if it did it is unable to fire its weaponry, along with the Defiler if it fleeted.
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Old 21 Jul 2008, 08:17   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Two Questions

But you see they only reason it is a pro is the fact the defiler can get into combat, whereas the vindicator cannot and therefore it cannot be shot at and it can wreak havoc amongst the enemies forward lines. And yes I know alot of you will be thinking "the defiler cant get to the lines, it wil get blown up to quickly" but it still has that possibility of doing so.
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Old 21 Jul 2008, 12:14   #6 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Two Questions

Allow me to give an example of why Fleet is an advantage;

Definer and a squad of Chaos Space Marine advance side by side. There are two enemy units; a unit of Striking Scorpions, and a unit of Howling Banshees. Both units are stood side by side, so ranges match.

In the shooting phase, the Marines are 7" away from the Scorpions. They rapid fire them and the Scorpions break.

The Defiler can now elect to Run. This puts it in charge range. As it has Fleet, it charges. The Banshees cannot hurt it, and get pulped. As the Defiler cannot break them in one turn (doesn't get nearly enough attacks to realistically break a full unit), it is now locked in combat... and thus cannot be shot in the Eldar turn!


This is why Fleet is an advantage.
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Old 21 Jul 2008, 12:30   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Two Questions

That all depends on the loadout out of the Defiler Wargy.

with 2 extra CC arms it has 6 attacks on the charge. Thats pretty much a REALLY nasty dreadnaught running at you.
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Old 21 Jul 2008, 13:09   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Two Questions

Yeah I see fleet as a pro when closing a combat distance, but not when outmaneuvering a Vindicator as previously stated above.
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Old 03 Aug 2008, 09:55   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Two Questions

Hey more questions:

Should I give my Skull Champions powerfists or powerclaws? I'm looking at around 1500 points with at least 3 squads of berzerkers (sp?), a cool HQ selection (kharn) and some mixed anti-tank. Maybe I should take a couple fists for punching tanks?

Oblits or a predator annihilator (3 lascannon)?

And can I see some pics of the berzerker sprues? I want to know if they're compatible with forge world's world eater conversion kit. The normal CSM kit doesn't have enough chainswords to convert a whole squad into berzerkers.

Also, I was under the impression that close-combat oriented defilers weren't recommended. Wouldn't it just get shot up?

Thanks for all the responses.
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Old 03 Aug 2008, 16:18   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Two Questions

1) skull champions can't take power claws, you mean power weps, then they should take fists, but a conversion for claws that are fists would look good.

2)if you need greater survivability, oblits, if you need more guns for less, predator

3)the chaos marine kit comes with 10 chainswords, a power fist and a power sword for close combat weapons, and the kit comes with enough parts for 10 marines, so it works out perfectly. And if you got the berserker kit, you'd have 2 unconverted models.

4) all depends on how you use it, and how big the board is, on an 8' wide apocalypse board, they would get shredded because the enemy has a lot of space to run, but on something like a 4'x4' board, you just have to make sure that the opponents take hunters are either distracted, dead or being eating by a cackling loaf of bread, they all work.

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