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Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?
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Old 15 Jul 2008, 19:58   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?

I've been thinking about perhaps starting a Tzeench Chaos Daemon army, but the lists I've come up with don't seem to have the balance of being any good while still retaining character.

Any help?
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Old 16 Jul 2008, 02:40   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?

Um, horrors? They're probably one of the most solid troops in the demon army. A good base of horrors, a few flamers for mobility, a Lord of Change or a handful of Heralds for HQ and then a Demon Prince or Sould Grinder for heavy support. Should tie you through the 1000-1500 point range.
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Old 16 Jul 2008, 03:25   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?

I played against a Tzeentch Demon army at a local tournament just after the Demon Codex came out. I won, but that was more because of the lack of terrain to hide in than anything else. Going from memory, my opponent had 2 good-sized squads of pink horrors, possibly with some flamers mixed in, and one squad had a "mess with your targeting" trick. There was a Chosen of Tzeentch (looked like a big bird of prey), one biggie smaller than that, and a squad of shriekers that kept my broadsides out of action for most of the match. It was a fun army to play against (I can't say how much fun it is to play with ), mostly because it was so different from everything else. I liked the fact that AP, which is usually the most important number, meant absolutely nothing.
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Old 16 Jul 2008, 04:18   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?

Horrors are by and large the best unit in the whole damn book, period. My Daemons use 4 units of 9 in 1,500 points, and I've lost a total of once thus far, mostly due to overwhelming shooting (gee, really?). You outshoot Tau in terms of killiness and you're far more survivable to boot, plus multiple units of Horrors deep-striking and shooting means total annihilation for at least one enemy squad on the turn they hit the table. Flamers are also obscenely good (3 of them hitting one unit usually means the unit is dead, near-dead or falling back, depending on how spread out they are. In general if you can hit the whole unit with one of your 3 flamers, that unit is dead and there is much overkill. Remember you put down templates and count number of hits before you roll a single die to wound!!! That way you maximise your number of killy Flamer hits. To anyone about to tell me that's the cheesy way of doing things, it's not. It's how you're supposed to do it according to 5th edition rules).

Mono Tzeentch I think makes the most powerful 40K Daemon army. It's just so obnoxiously strong!
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Old 16 Jul 2008, 04:33   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?

Screamers are great against vehicles!

Tzeentch is one of my more favorite God's in the new daemon codex.
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Old 16 Jul 2008, 05:13   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?

Welcome to the halls of the damned, Hairy Grim.


Well for starters, you have to understand two thing if you want to go Mono-Tzeentch;
1)You have to realize that you will be doing nothing much but shooting with the big majority of your units.

2)You have to realize that Tzeentch armies are very competent in terms of their Anti-tank and also anti-infantry.

The Horrors and Flamers are some of the most devastating units when it comes to shooting (that is provided they are within range) and also that they are rather durable as a whole (4+ Invulnerable saves are not to be trifled with). Screamers are unique as now they can pop quite a number of tanks via back armour in 5th ed, whic will add to your already considerable anti-tank power.

For a Mono-Tzeentch, I say go for the Horrors for your troop choices with one of the squads having the Changeling in it, and Flamers for your elites. For the Flamers I highly suggest that you put at least a Bolt of Tzeentch in there, for the purpose of tank popping. However, these units as a whole are quite juicy targets, and thus you need to attract them to somehting much bigger and nastier. In comes the Big Birds of Doom(Lord of Change) and Daemon Princes. These things are big and nasty, and also is able to draw some considerable fire away from the other smaller units. For that purpose, I highly suggest that you take Fateweaver. He will increase the survivability of all your units within 6" near him in additio to himself (re-rolling your saves is just nasty) and I highly suggest that he should be used together with all your big guys to draw even more fire from the opponent's army, so that your little ones can do their job without being harassed too much.

For you heavy support, I say take the Daemon Princes over the Soulgrinder, as they can survive quite a while longer than the sol grinder, and also for the fact that it is much smaller than the soul grinder, which is good for deepstriking.
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Old 16 Jul 2008, 16:06   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?

K, thanks everyone for your input.

While Fateweaver does have a nice ability, the idea of having to pass a Ld check at Ld 9 every time he takes a wound to stop him being removed from play (correct me if Im wrong, that part of the ability confuses me, & does Fateweaver get to reroll his own saves?) combined with his lower stats does make me feel rather reluctant to take him (besides, I want to model my own LoC, the GW models look distinctly un-Tzeenchy to me).

What type of Daemon Prince do you suggest? Ranged or CC?

Idea so far roughly is:
LoC - Boc, MoS, WaL
3 Flamers
3 squads of 5 Horrors - BoT
5 Screamers
Soul Grinder - Phlegm or a Daemon Prince
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Old 18 Jul 2008, 06:04   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?

Quote:
Horrors are by and large the best unit in the whole damn book, period. My Daemons use 4 units of 9 in 1,500 points, and I've lost a total of once thus far, mostly due to overwhelming shooting (gee, really?). You outshoot Tau in terms of killiness and you're far more survivable to boot, plus multiple units of Horrors deep-striking and shooting means total annihilation for at least one enemy squad on the turn they hit the table.
That is your opinion and not necessarily everyones else.

Secondly you made comments how superior horrors are against tau.

Your models cost: 20 models = 340 points
for the same amount of points I can have 34 models of Fire warriors that have the best ranged infantry weapon in the entire game.

You have a same BS as the Tau but the Tau can get marker lights.

You get within 18 inches of Tau units and if you do not break those units you better believe a knowledgeable Tau player is going to move and rapid fire you to death.

And what good is your STR4 AP 4 weapons against Mechanized Tau Army, which many do play?

I was part of the Eye of Terror Campaign where the so called useless Tau just beat everyone to the ground.

Remember "The Red Chair" and "Tau Marshal" and the rest of us who literally brought the Imperium to its knees.

If you play a themed army you play it for the concept or the models. If you play it for the win, it would be easier to play something else.

Pink horrors have their place in a mixed daemon army as they can provide firepower to soften enough of the opponents army to give your other deep striking units a chance to reach their objective.

Quote:
What type of Daemon Prince do you suggest? Ranged or CC?
For speed you want the Keeper of Secrets,

For soaking enough firepower you might want the Great Unclean One or the Plague father.

You also might want to try Skull Taker on a chariot. That can be one mean model to deal with.

Proxy your ideas out first before spending money.



Edited to remove specific point costs - Cadaver
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Old 19 Jul 2008, 12:56   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemonette Embrace
Quote:
What type of Daemon Prince do you suggest? Ranged or CC?
For speed you want the Keeper of Secrets,

For soaking enough firepower you might want the Great Unclean One or the Plague father.

You also might want to try Skull Taker on a chariot. That can be one mean model to deal with.

Proxy your ideas out first before spending money.
So...what type of Daemon Prince did you suggest (first 2 were Greater Daemons, third was a Herald)?
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Old 31 Jul 2008, 19:11   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Decent Tzeench Daemon Army?

Go with 2 Lords of Change, 3 Daemonprinces with wings and armour, some flamers and a bunch of horror squads with icons, and watch your opponents jaw drop as you place all those eternal warriors with jump packs on the table. They are guaranteed to shoot everything at the big nasties, and leave your scoring units alone.
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