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Changes to my Chaos list (Terminators and HQ)
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Old 11 Jul 2008, 00:41   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Changes to my Chaos list (Terminators and HQ)

Please bear with my running thoughts because I'm looking for some tactical and fluffy ideas here. Thanks in advance - Em

Because of Cadaver's Daemon Prince, I think I'm going to have to change my current Obliterator model into a Daemon Prince model as well. The truth is that the Daemon Prince is just a better HQ choice all around for the points.

So, that bumps my terminator Sorcerer from it's HQ spot. I still like the model, though and now I have free points as well. I also have one more plastic terminator - bringing my total potential terminators to nine.

Following this line of reasoning, I was thinking of perhaps breaking my Terminator squad into 3x3 detachments (being that 3 is one of Nurgle's numbers).

This formation would look something like this:
Terminators: 3 Champions with Power Fists & Combi-Meltas with an Icon of Nurgle.
2xTerminators: Champion with single Lightning Claw & Heavy Flamer, 2 Champions with Lightning Claw Pairs, with an Icon of Nurgle.

The problem is that these three units cost close to 600 points! If I drop the Icons, I can get them down to 475 points. The problem is that it doesn't really fit with my army theme.

So I thought of dumping them all into the same unit. So I'd get a unit of 9 models with 4 lightning claw pairs, 3 combi-meltas/powerfists, 1 lightning claw/heavy flamer, and a "commander" of some arrangement.

This unit would cost a little more than 500 points but could also be very potent unit of shock troops. My concern really isn't in its cost (as I've got the points to burn at this point) or the equipment (as I'm a little limited with bits...but if the set up is horrible, let me know and I might be able to change it a little) but my primary concern is the number 9. Is a unit of 9 going to be considered to be a horrible offense to Nurgle? What if I divided the unit up into three units of three or something like that?

For the record, I did play this army in on full game with the unit of 7 Terminators and they ended up trouncing a 220 point unit of Loyalist Terminators and a 400+ point Loyalist HQ before dipping below 50%. So I do really like them. The 16 S4 WS4, I4 power weapon attacks from the lightning claw models are pretty intimidating too.

Thanks in advance for any feedback.
Em

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Old 11 Jul 2008, 01:37   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Changes to my Chaos list (Terminators and HQ)

the unit of 9 seems pretty deadly

the only thing i would suggest is to try not to mix roles as much. The way you have them set up they seem very assault orriented. the lightning claws to tear through hordes and powerfists for tougher targets. and the heavy flamer compliments that nicely. however the combi-meltas suggest anti-tank. id say either change them to a different combi-weapon that is suited more for an assault unit. or better yet drop them entirely since this is already a very pricey unit

hope this helps ;D

-Autarch Kaelmor
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Old 11 Jul 2008, 05:02   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Changes to my Chaos list (Terminators and HQ)

I don't think it is any number that would be offensive. I know that it would be if it was 8, as that is the number of Khorne (and also assault companies >)
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Old 11 Jul 2008, 05:21   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Changes to my Chaos list (Terminators and HQ)

9 is unfluffy it is the number of tzeentch by the old fluff who feeds off hope. 7 would be a much fluffier number. I would maybe get it down to seven. I think 9 terminators is overkill by a ton. The problem is they will be too Killy and annihilate the enemy.
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Old 11 Jul 2008, 09:12   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Changes to my Chaos list (Terminators and HQ)

Yeah 9 termies is like putting all you eggs in one basket, I would just go with 5, That is plenty killy, But we also need to know how you use them. Do you deepstrike or slogg it up. do you have a mobile/ sloggy army?

I tend to find that when i use my termies, they maybe get one or two good kills in before the enemy has reacted and moved away. a good way to et around this is try and do a Hammer and anvil aproach where you deeptrike your temies on one flank (with some bikes maybe?) and then have tough units and hqs on the other, so the enemy is trapped between 2 attacks, but this would mean separating you army, So you want a fast is tough is unit to go up the centre really (spawn maybe?) so as to draw fire and stop the enemy from escaping from the flank attacks.
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Old 11 Jul 2008, 15:01   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Changes to my Chaos list (Terminators and HQ)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Autarch Kaelmor
the only thing i would suggest is to try not to mix roles as much. The way you have them set up they seem very assault oriented. the lightning claws to tear through hordes and powerfists for tougher targets. and the heavy flamer compliments that nicely. however the combi-meltas suggest anti-tank. id say either change them to a different combi-weapon that is suited more for an assault unit. or better yet drop them entirely since this is already a very pricey unit
I understand what you're saying here. My army lacks a bit of anti-tank, so I thought that keeping the option open for the unit to be able to ace a tank if necessary. I'll continue my stream of thoughts below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor Wu
9 is unfluffy it is the number of tzeentch by the old fluff who feeds off hope. 7 would be a much fluffier number. I would maybe get it down to seven.
That's the size of the unit now. It does work well. But I have two leftover models and some points to eat to get to 2,000. What about 3 units of 3? Is that fluffy enough?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris the Llama
Yeah 9 termies is like putting all you eggs in one basket, I would just go with 5, That is plenty killy, But we also need to know how you use them. Do you deepstrike or slogg it up. do you have a mobile/ sloggy army?
My army is primarily foot slogging (4 units of 7 Plague Marines, a Lord on Palanquin). I also will have a Land Raider. My idea is to put the Lord with a assault-oriented Plague Marine unit and stick them in the Land Raider. Then I'll shove that unit into a flank or center. I may deep strike the Termies using the Lord's icon. However, my concern is that means they won't be able to assault till turn 3 at the earliest. Of course, if they foot-slog - I'm in the same boat.

Quote:
I tend to find that when i use my termies, they maybe get one or two good kills in before the enemy has reacted and moved away. a good way to et around this is try and do a Hammer and anvil aproach where you deeptrike your temies on one flank (with some bikes maybe?) and then have tough units and hqs on the other, so the enemy is trapped between 2 attacks, but this would mean separating you army, So you want a fast is tough is unit to go up the centre really (spawn maybe?) so as to draw fire and stop the enemy from escaping from the flank attacks.
Hmmm, that's some good information. So if I go with 3 units of three - each tweaked to function a certain way - could that be helpful?

Thanks guys! This dialogue is very helpful to me.
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Old 12 Jul 2008, 08:26   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Changes to my Chaos list (Terminators and HQ)

Hey Em, I'm a big fan of Chaos termies even though alot of people write them off as uneffective in the new codex. I think the key is to try and keep their point cost down but have them in larger units. This can be a bit of a tough proposition, as they are quite expensive at their base cost if you are building a large squad.

The lightning claws are going to add to the points with 4 total but I think the abilities are worth the cost. I think I would drop the single LC on the heavy flamer model and replace it with a standard power weapon. Once in assault you will need a few throw away models for any failed saves and as he should have filled his role by thinning the opponents numbers prior to assault he would be the first guy I would sacrifice when the enemy starts causing casualties.

The 3 powerfists are good to have for some heavy hitters after the lightning claws guys do their work, however I think the combi meltas may be overkill with three. As others have stated it does seem to be a mixed role for the squad with the anti tank. If split in separate squads I could see the benefit but if you choose a larger squad I think you could drop them or what I feel is a better option for an assault role is to replace them with combi plasmas. As you can rapid fire them the turn you deepstrike, you will cut through everything from othe terminators down to the lowliest of troops. Thinning them out prior to an assault should guarantee fewer losses once you charge and in that regard I find the combi plasma the best "take all comers" option for terminators.

Now if you really want to go wild add a Lord in Termi armor with a Daemon Weapon to this unit. He will plow through units with alot of attacks at I5, which will make the unit uber deadly, although quite expensive. Alternatively, you could simply use a Lord in the LR as you mentioned for some heavy hitting support. It's a reliable depstrike but you risk having a large amount of high cost units in one area of the board, which will draw and excessive amount of fire.

Anyway, whatever tactics you choose, I recommend higher numbered units. They will save points on icons and lower the risk of them having to take morale tests. And frankly, dropping down a huge unit of termies in front of your opponents valuable units and ripping them to pieces. It'll bring a smile to your face every time.
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Old 12 Jul 2008, 23:07   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Changes to my Chaos list (Terminators and HQ)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadaver
Hey Em, I'm a big fan of Chaos termies even though alot of people write them off as uneffective in the new codex. I think the key is to try and keep their point cost down but have them in larger units. This can be a bit of a tough proposition, as they are quite expensive at their base cost if you are building a large squad.
Well, I think they definitely have potential in the new codex. I'm not quite sure how to use them as far as deployment, though. If I deep strike, I can't assault...which means it'll be turn 3 before they can do anything. So do you suggest starting with them on board (especially with run)?

Quote:
The lightning claws are going to add to the points with 4 total but I think the abilities are worth the cost. I think I would drop the single LC on the heavy flamer model and replace it with a standard power weapon. Once in assault you will need a few throw away models for any failed saves and as he should have filled his role by thinning the opponents numbers prior to assault he would be the first guy I would sacrifice when the enemy starts causing casualties.
Fair enough. Do you suggest ablative wounds in terminator squads? In that case I'd probably use a 30 point model.

Quote:
The 3 powerfists are good to have for some heavy hitters after the lightning claws guys do their work, however I think the combi meltas may be overkill with three. As others have stated it does seem to be a mixed role for the squad with the anti tank.
Fair enough. I think that makes sense to me. I was just thinking about using the 1 AP2 Assault 1 shot they each get would be pretty good vs other terminators.

Quote:
If split in separate squads I could see the benefit but if you choose a larger squad I think you could drop them or what I feel is a better option for an assault role is to replace them with combi plasmas. As you can rapid fire them the turn you deepstrike, you will cut through everything from othe terminators down to the lowliest of troops.
That is actually a really great idea. Hmmm, I'll have to think on this.


Thanks for your input. It was helpful.
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