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Slaansh in 5th posibble getting the shaft.
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Old 02 Jun 2008, 04:37   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Spring, Tx
Posts: 2,264
Default Slaansh in 5th posibble getting the shaft.

OK I don't know if rending i gonna change or not. But if it changes to where it works only on wound rolls than slaanesh is really gonna get hurt by this.

The other two renders like harlequins i gonna feel it to but they have a high ws and can get the doom ability which actually gives them an advantage now.

While genestealers is forced to take scything talons and a few more stealer's to compensate.

But where this leaves units like daemonettes. With the ws they have the rending ability is only gonna help them against guard type ws and lower. But at this point the int of models of this type of ws is low too. At which point I could use bloodletters instead.

For example let's say there is a wraith lord on the table. With the rules at how they stand 5 daemnettes on a charge will kill a wraith lord.

But get this. Since there ws is the same only 50% off their attacks will go through. So now you will need 10 daemonettes to kill a wraith lord on a charge.

But in perspective if you look at genestealers that cost 2 points more now you need at lest 5 genestealers to kill a wraithlord.

But in the new codex you need 8 genestealers for the same task. Which for the nid player cost 12 pts less and with 2 less units. Not to mentioned the nid player can upgrade to get more from his rend.

But that's against monstrous creatures. Lets see what happens if this is against standard marines.

Daemonettes now vs marines.
10 daemonettes vs 10 marines:
30 attacks on charge
5 rend 5 dead marines
10 wounds 3 saves
1 failed save
6 dead marines

Genesealers now vs marines.
10 genestealers vs 10 marines
5 rend 5 dead marines
15 wounds 7.5 saves
2 failed save
7 dead marines

Not to much difference but watch this.

5Th edition
10 Daemonettes vs 10 Marines
30 attacks
15 wounds /2.5 deadmarines
2.5 saves
3 dead marines

in this scenario 7 marines will attack back killing 2 daemonettes eventually the marines will win combat against the daemonettes.

10 genestealers vs 10 marines
30 attacks
20 wounds/ 3 dead marines
7 saves/ 2 failed saves
5.5 dead marines

5 marines will kill 1 genestealer. Which the genstealers will eventually eat the marines.

In the age of 5Th edition you'll have to charge with 15 daemonettes to win combat with marines. Hell I could always use my bloodletters.

Anyway against troops daemonettes will only be effective against models that suck in hth. Also the only thing they can be effective against will be against monstrous creatures.

Oh let me do 5Th edition charge math against orks.

10 daemonettes vs 20 orks
30 attacks/ 15 wounds
2.5 rend/2.5 dead orks
2.5 wounds
I'll go ahead and say 5 dead orks
OK lets say this is your attack orcs which you gonna see orc players play now.
15 orks vs 10 daemonettes
45 attacks/ 22.5 wounds
11 saves
about 8 dead daemonettes

You was the one charging them and get this. Damonettes cost more than double than these guys.

Lets see what would bloodletters would do.
10 bloodletters vs 20 orcs
30 attacks/ 20 wounds
about 13 saves/ 13 dead orks

7 orks vs 10 bloodletters
21 attacks/ 10.5 wounds
5 saves/ 4 dead bloodletters

Lets see hemmm which troop choice will i use.
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Old 03 Jun 2008, 09:02   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Slaansh in 5th posibble getting the shaft.

You are incorrect for 5TH Ed daemonettes

Base 3 +1 for Charge

5Th edition 10 Daemonettes vs 10 Marines is 40 attacks. NOT 30 attacks.

Page 84 on the Daemon Codex.

Now... you did not take into consideration 4th game mechanics when dealing with the older version of deamonettes and with the years of dealing and playing chaos I will give you a standard model of what has usually happens when I play against smurfs.


10 daemonettes charging into 10 standard space marines (with powerfist) in Cover. Smurfs strike first of course.

9 attacks from smurfs possible 5 hits (rounding up).
Out of 5 hits, possible 3 wounds (rounding up).
Out of 3 wounds 2 dies.
Total = 2 dead daemons so far.

8 Daemonettes attack, 24 attacks on a charge.
Out of 24 attacks 12 hit and out of those 12 hits 3 are rending.
Out 9 hits, 5 wounds (rounding up)
Out of 5 wounds 2 failed saves (rounding up)

Total = 5 dead mariines

Finally the power fisted Sarge gets to strike, 3 attacks.
Out of 3 attacks 2 hit (rounding up)
Out of 2 hits, 2 wounds (rounding up)
Out of 2 saves, 2 failed saves.

Total = 2 more dead Daemonettes.

Total Dead in 4th Ed combat
5 dead Smurfs, 4 daemonettes


In 5th Ed if the same thing happens I attack first because I have the Aura of Acquiescence which is Offensive Grenages.

This means that their attack goes by Int.


10 daemonettes charging into 10 standard space marines (with powerfist) in Cover. Daemonettes strike first of course.

10 Daemonettes attack, 40 attacks on a charge.
Out of 40 attacks 20 are hits
Out 20 hits, 7 wounds (rounding up)
Out of those 7 wounds, 3 are rending (rounding down).
Out of 4 wounds left, 1 failed saves (rounding down)
Total = 4 dead mariines.

Attack from Smurfs
6 attacks from smurfs possible 3 hits.
Out of 3 hits, possible 2 wounds.
Out of 2 wounds 2 dies so far.
Finally the power fisted Sarge gets to strike, 3 attacks.
Out of 3 attacks 2 hit (rounding up)
Out of 2 hits, 2 wounds (rounding up)
Out of 2 saves, 2 failed saves, 2 die (rounded off).
total dead = 4 daemonettes

Total Dead in 5th Ed combat
4 dead Smurfs, 4 daemonettes

Overall it is one less death between 4th and 5th that I have generally seen when playing Daemonettes.



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Old 03 Jun 2008, 10:33   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Slaansh in 5th posibble getting the shaft.

If you're gonna count models worth, then you have to have an equal amount of points on both sides. Since genestealers are fully 50% more expensive than a daemonette, all your math is void and null.
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Old 03 Jun 2008, 21:36   #4 (permalink)
Anton
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Default Re: Slaansh in 5th posibble getting the shaft.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seregon
If you're gonna count models worth, then you have to have an equal amount of points on both sides. Since genestealers are fully 50% more expensive than a daemonette, all your math is void and null.
Indeed, which is why I'm locking this topic and disallowing the discussion of 5th edition in the Forces of Chaos board until the day the rulebook is released. Locked. Warning Issued. - Anton.
 
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