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Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances
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Old 13 May 2008, 00:02   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances

This is the first of a series of articles I will be writing pertaining to the various forces of Chaos. When I started Warhammer 40,000 in 2nd edition the game was built around the mindset of "making it your own game." House rules and rules interpretations being left to the players were heavily encouraged and widely used in friendly games and gaming groups.

Today there is a stronger focus on competitive play and list building and strict adherence to the rules. This is fine and also fits into "making the game your own." Anyone is free to play the game as they choose but here I want to focus on thinking outside the box and creating lists, rules and armies that are focused on the fluff and spirit of friendly play.

These articles will be my opinions and ideas but are by no means set in stone. Conflicting and differing viewpoints are welcome and encouraged and if better ideas are presented they may be incorporated or simply used to help someone else create their own set of rules for personal use.

This article will be focusing on allying Chaos Space Marines and Daemons in a single army. When creating house rules I'm of the belief to under power and adjust after playtesting to try and create rules that are fluffy and themed, but just as important, they should be balanced as well. The goal here should be to create a fun list for friendly play and not uber lists to win at all costs.

As such, some things may seemed somewhat disadvantageous. This is to ensure, as best I can, that rules are not abused and in some cases you do pay a penalty of sorts for having allies, whether it be the high cost of required units to attain daemons for a force organizational slot, or the limiting of certain options.

[hr]

After reading through the Daemon codex I've come up with a basic rules set for allying the Chaos Space marines with Daemonic forces. In these rules Chaos Space Marines should be the focal point of the army with Daemons as allying support units. The Daemons should enter play using the summoning rules from Codex Chaos Space Marines. The exception to this is the Daemon Prince from Codex: Chaos Daemons, which can be placed as normal in the deployment phase.

HQ

You must take 1 HQ from the CSM codex. If that unit has the mark of a specific god you may only take a Daemon HQ of the same mark in the second HQ slot. HQs without a mark or with the Icon of Chaos(IoCG) glory may take a second HQ devoted to any Chaos God.

Elites

You may take one Elite choice from the Daemon codex for each Elite choice chosen from the CSM codex. Elites units with a god specific mark must take Daemon Elite units of the same mark. Unmarked units or units with the IoCG may select an Elite choice devoted to any Chaos God.

Troops

You must take two troops choices from the CSM codex for one choice from the Daemon codex. Both Troop choices from the CSM codex must have the same mark as that of the Daemon Troops unit. If both units are unmarked or have the IoCG they may choose a Troops choice devoted to any Chaso God.

Fast Attack

You may take one Fast Attack choice from the Daemon codex for each Fast Attack choice chosen from the CSM codex. Fast attack units with a god specific mark must take Daemon Fast Attack units of the same mark. Unmarked units or units with the IoCG may select a Fast Attack choice devoted to any Chaos God.

Heavy Support

You may take one Soul Grinder in place of a Heavy Support slot from the CSM codex. This unit is a 0-1 option, so you may only take one Soul Grinder as an ally in your army.

Daemon princes count as an HQ choice when allied with CSMs. Therefore, they are also a 0-1 option, however you may still take a Daemon Prince using the rules from the CSM codex. As per the HQ rules, if the CSM HQ is marked you must take the same mark for the Codex Daemons Daemon Prince. Unmarked CSM HQs or HQs with the IoCG may take a Daemon Prince devoted to any Chaos god.


[hr]

I think this alliance system should be fairly balanced. As you may have noticed it is set up to allow themed or God specific armies but also to allow true undivided armies.

Hopefully this will allow players to field a more integrated Chaos army in their casual games or even adapt these rules for their gaming group. Again, I want to stress this rules set is my idea of how an allied Chaos army should work, but it's just that, an idea. This has not been playtested so feel free to try it out amongst friends and let me know how it works. If you have any suggestions or observations from using the list, let me know. I'd also like to hear what you might change or what you think would fit your idea of how a allied Chaos army should function.

Another good write up. +1 Karma - Anton.


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Old 13 May 2008, 01:46   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances

Well done, I like this set of rules a lot! I already have a few Marines and planned on jumping over to Chaos, and for smaller-ish games this gives me some fun options to toy around with.

I still contemplate making Chaos Space Marines count as elites choices for a demon army, but that's because my collection will probably be Demon heavy. Maybe something like what they did for IA, where Alpha Legion marines took up an Elites slot...
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Old 13 May 2008, 05:03   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances

I'm sorry if this seems like a silly question, but were these rules written with the normal daemonic deployment in mind? (i.e. half of the daemon units deepstrike on the first turn regardless of what the marines are doing)

I'd really like to give these rules a shot as my army has always been heavily themed around daemons.
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Old 13 May 2008, 07:36   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances

Quote:
Originally Posted by sionnach19
Well done, I like this set of rules a lot! I already have a few Marines and planned on jumping over to Chaos, and for smaller-ish games this gives me some fun options to toy around with.

I still contemplate making Chaos Space Marines count as elites choices for a demon army, but that's because my collection will probably be Demon heavy. Maybe something like what they did for IA, where Alpha Legion marines took up an Elites slot...
I would suggest if you are going with a more daemon based army to take Marines as Elites using the Daemon codex as the main book. My list is designed more as a fix to the lack of daemon options available in the CSM codex. So I would say you've got the right idea for your army, just play a few test games and see what works best and adjust as you see fit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Puppyblue
I'm sorry if this seems like a silly question, but were these rules written with the normal daemonic deployment in mind? (i.e. half of the daemon units deepstrike on the first turn regardless of what the marines are doing)

I'd really like to give these rules a shot as my army has always been heavily themed around daemons.
That's a good question and something I didn't address in the post. Daemons in this list should be brought in via the summoning rules in Codex CSM. The Daemon Prince for Codex Chaos Daemons, taken as an HQ, should be deployed as normal.
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Old 31 May 2008, 10:21   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances

I didn't realise that the new daemons army for 40k and CSM couldn't be integrated together until late, and these seem like a really nice set of rules. I have a mix of CSM and some daemons and tbh i wanted to combine the two codices once i finally decided to get off my backside to buy the new daemons codex. Does it actually state in the daemons codex that they couldn't be allies unless it was some "house rules"? But your house rules are really nice i might borrow them
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Old 31 May 2008, 14:52   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances

One question; do Lesser and Greater Daemons enter play as per described in Codex: Daemons or Codex: Chaos Space Marines?
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Old 31 May 2008, 17:41   #7 (permalink)
Anton
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Default Re: Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctica
I didn't realise that the new daemons army for 40k and CSM couldn't be integrated together until late, and these seem like a really nice set of rules. I have a mix of CSM and some daemons and tbh i wanted to combine the two codices once i finally decided to get off my backside to buy the new daemons codex. Does it actually state in the daemons codex that they couldn't be allies unless it was some "house rules"? But your house rules are really nice i might borrow them
You cannot ally units from Codex: Chaos Daemons with units from Codex: Chaos Space Marines except in games of Apocalypse. You may get away with this if you ask for your opponents permission in regular games, and that you have a set of "house rules" that integrate the Daemons fairly with the Chaos Space Marines. But I doubt that any compotent opponent would allow you to ally Chaos Daemons units with Chaos Space Marine units.
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Old 31 May 2008, 19:39   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
One question; do Lesser and Greater Daemons enter play as per described in Codex: Daemons or Codex: Chaos Space Marines?
They enter via the summoning rules from Code Chaos Space Marines. The Daemon Prince for Codex Chaos Daemons, taken as an HQ, should be deployed as you would deploy a Daemon Prince from C:CSM.

I answered this question in a previous post but I guess I forgot to put it in the rules. I better go do that now. ;D
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Old 31 May 2008, 19:53   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton
You cannot ally units from Codex: Chaos Daemons with units from Codex: Chaos Space Marines except in games of Apocalypse. You may get away with this if you ask for your opponents permission in regular games, and that you have a set of "house rules" that integrate the Daemons fairly with the Chaos Space Marines. But I doubt that any compotent opponent would allow you to ally Chaos Daemons units with Chaos Space Marine units.
Is it me or does the fact you cant ally the two seem extremely crazy since they have in a sense always co-existed in 40k as an entity and that you can take some of the daemons in the current chaos space marines codex. Im no expert in the fluff but i think it seems very strange anyway.
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Old 01 Jun 2008, 05:47   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Herectical Visions: Dark Alliances

Quote:
Originally Posted by arctica
Is it me or does the fact you cant ally the two seem extremely crazy since they have in a sense always co-existed in 40k as an entity and that you can take some of the daemons in the current chaos space marines codex. Im no expert in the fluff but i think it seems very strange anyway.

Alot fo people are/were pretty upset about not being able to ally when the CSM codex was released. Fluffwise it's definitely possible but as for game balance it can be a bit tricky. However, my personal opinion is that GW didn't want a significant amount of daemon options in Codex: CSM because it would make the Codex Daemons a somewhat unneeded addition. With Codex Daemons being a potential crossover army for 40k and WFB, it makes good business sense for GW to release both simultaneously. Unfortunately, the fluff/army options had to suffer for what was a pretty good business move, in my opinion.

Anyway, that's why I wrote up these rules. Instead of whining about it, like alot of Chaos players did, I took the initiative to change what I didn't like in a (I think) balanced and reasonable manner.
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