Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Lash Of Submission Clarification
Reply
Old 10 May 2008, 23:11   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wick
Posts: 704
Send a message via MSN to Mr.Tau
Default Lash Of Submission Clarification

Now we slaanesh lovers all know they ultimately sexy benefits of using lash of submission, wether it's moving a heavy weapon squad to stop their fire or moving things into rapid firing death range, this is a unique and great ability.

My question however is, When you use lash of submission, you pass your psychic test, you roll 2D6 for how far they can move, but wait.... thats where things get confusing..... when you roll 2D6, what happens next, do you have to move that unit the full distance you've rolled, or is it up to you how far you move them?

Say I roll 8" but I only need to move them 6" to do what i've planned, can I do that, or do I have to move them the full 8"? I can't see anywhere that says you have to move them full distance, but then i've not seen anywhere that says you don't have to either.

What's your general opinion? This started when we were having a large A-game, one of my teammates used his lash to move a group of hormogaunts back a few inches away to bring them in LoS and range of a very nice chaos defiler's battle cannon, now he rolled 11", but he only needed to move 3" maybe 4" at the utmost but then one of the opposing players argued that, whatever you roll you have to move that full distance. But do you?

I would say you wouldn't, I'd assume that the psyker using this power would move them for a reason, IE to bring them into range of some ordanance based death, he would want to use the lash to bring his enemies into a situation that is beneficial for the psykers forces. But thats just me......

What do you think?
__________________
Mr.Tau is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2008, 01:09   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 542
Default Re: Lash Of Submission Clarification

I think most people treat it like the movement phase - what you role is the maximum distance you can move them. And just like in the movement phase you can move them in different directions, so if you rolled 11" and only wanted to move them 3", you could move them forward 7 " and back 4".

On the other hand, if you can wait a couple of days, a new Chaos FAQ is due out on the 15th, and I expect that half of it will be dedicated to questions about the Lash.
Chimerical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11 May 2008, 09:14   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 53
Default Re: Lash Of Submission Clarification

IMO it must be moved the full distance. "the target is moved 2d6.." it does not say UP TO.
LUSK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 May 2008, 13:38   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: Lash Of Submission Clarification

I think it's badly worded, and can be argued either way.

For example, let's say I roll a 7. But, I wanted to move your guys 3 inches. What stops me from moving them five inches the way I want, and then another two inches backwards? I've moved them 7 inches. If you get in a car, and drive five miles in one direction and then two in the opposite direction, has your odometer not changed by seven miles?

I think, also, that the designer intent was to make it like a 'normal move'. I believe this because Pavane, which just came out in the daemon codex, has nicely worded rules that explicitly state that you treat it like a normal move, with all the restrictions (must keep coherency, etc) of a normal move.
redbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 May 2008, 13:56   #5 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 18,087
Default Re: Lash Of Submission Clarification

The wording itself pretty clearly states 2d6 rather than "up to 2d6". But as it doesn't specify a direction like a fall-back move would have to, there is nothing to stop you from reducing that by taking a circuitous route to your destination. So as it is now, I agree that the argument for it acting like a normal move is stronger.
khanaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 May 2008, 14:01   #6 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On the Midnight Ocean
Posts: 26,404
Send a message via MSN to Wargamer
Default Re: Lash Of Submission Clarification

I would read it as '2D6" from point of origin'. In other words, if you roll a 11" move you cannot move 5" north, 1" east and 5" south; that would be 1" east in total!
__________________
Farewell, Kangaroo Joe, you shall not be forgotten.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
"Wargamer is never wrong, Frodo Baggins; he knows precisely the rules he means to."
Wargamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 May 2008, 14:07   #7 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 18,087
Default Re: Lash Of Submission Clarification

But what would happen if you had to move around impassable terrain (or another unit)?

Honestly, I think it should have been treated as a fall-back move in a direction of the Chaos player's choosing. So they get to role the distance and direction, but the owner still moves the models. That eliminates some of the stranger uses of the power that have drawn the most complaints.
khanaris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 May 2008, 14:25   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: Lash Of Submission Clarification

The most abused uses of the power that I've seen discussed all involved doing things that aren't allowed by the normal movement rules. For example, taking a unit and moving it way out of coherency, such that it takes two turns to get back into a legal formation, costing the opponent two turns.

Forcing the move to be exactly the amount rolled creates impossible situations, especially, as Khanaris mentioned, with impassable terrain, or with 'moving near enemy models'.

Let's say I have a unit that's sitting near the board corner. My daemon prince is about 8 inches away, and I've got a rhino pulled up next to them. I want to lash this unit closer to the prince so that he can assault. But, I roll a 9. Now, if you treat this as "must move the exact distance rolled", what do I do? I cannot move them 9" towards the daemon prince as that would violate the moving within 1" of enemy models rule. I cannot move them to the side where the rhino is, for the same reason. I cannot move them off the board either. But, I have to move them exactly the distance rolled. Some rule is being broken here...

I'm not in favour of interpretations that lead to impossible situations. The better interpretation is that you can move up-to the amount rolled on the dice, as it never forces one of these problems.

redbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 May 2008, 14:40   #9 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On the Midnight Ocean
Posts: 26,404
Send a message via MSN to Wargamer
Default Re: Lash Of Submission Clarification

Where you cannot move, you stop. That is how you solve these problems.

If you want to move a unit toward a Defiler 7" away, and you roll 8", it moves 7" and stops.

The reason I do not agree with "bendy" movements is that GW covered this a long while back with Fast Moving Skimmers and Turbo Boost, stating with both that you couldn't just drive around in a big circle to gain the bonus!
__________________
Farewell, Kangaroo Joe, you shall not be forgotten.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
"Wargamer is never wrong, Frodo Baggins; he knows precisely the rules he means to."
Wargamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12 May 2008, 15:12   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,759
Default Re: Lash Of Submission Clarification

But that's exactly the point. They specifically wrote into those rules, "you must end further than X inches from where you started."

Lash contains no such clause. Nor does it say anything about "move the unit as far as you can and then stop". That's an unwieldly sentence and far more of a leap than just figuring that the power lets you move 'up to' the distance rolled.
redbeard is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Lash of Submission Question Phanixis Tau 16 12 Oct 2008 18:33
Pavane of Slaanesh and Lash of Submission ether Forces of Chaos 12 29 Sep 2008 02:58
A clever Tactic for using the Lash of Submission bebe Forces of Chaos 2 11 Apr 2008 03:47
The Complete Guide to Lash of Submission redbeard Forces of Chaos 13 08 Sep 2007 03:36
Lash of Submission musings and overview bebe Forces of Chaos 17 22 Aug 2007 09:08