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Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army
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Old 28 Apr 2008, 20:20   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army

Now, I know they are cool. I also know that I hate the models. But still, Thousand Sons have tweaked my interest. So I have a question...

Obviously, against MEQ's Thousand Sons excel with their AP 3 weaponry and winning a game there won't be excessively difficult.

HOWEVER, what if you face a horde army? If I'm pumping bolters into squads of Orks, it doesn't matter what AP my Marines have, simply the number of shots. But since the Rubric Marines are so expensive, they don't have the quantity of the shots to deal with a horde army like that. So I humbly ask, do 1k Sons have no chance against horde armies?

I guess it would be possible to use more basic, unmarked Space Marines and throw in a Rubric Squad or two to cover the slack and spread enough psychic power around to still play like a 1k Sons army. Would this work out better?
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Old 28 Apr 2008, 21:18   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army

If you use JUST rubrics versus a horde force, then yes, you'll most likely get shafted. But most Sons players I know have a "core" of 2-3 rubric squads, then use specialists like Havocs or raptors to take care of any problem area. Of course, I give my specialists an Icon of Tzeentch, and even make them LOOK like Thousand Sons.

Versus the example of a horde army, I'd probably take 2 squads of Rubrics, and two squads of Havocs. One squad of Havocs will have 4 flamers (Mmmm... Barbeque...) and a rhino, while the other squad will have heavy bolters. The rubric sorcerers will both have Wind of Chaos, as it's great at taking out bugs of any size. Depending on the size of the game, I'd then look at what other templates I can take, as any horde player HATES templates with a passion. Perhaps a Vindicator or Defiler...
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Old 28 Apr 2008, 22:14   #3 (permalink)
Aun
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Default Re: Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army

Quote:
So I humbly ask, do 1k Sons have no chance against horde armies?
Yes, and for more than one reason.

One of the more overlooked reasons, but one that every Thousand Sons squad has is the ability Slow and Purposefull. Now then, I am required to say this,
Slow and Purposefull is NOT a disadvantage!
And you should never think of it as one.

What Slow and Purposefull lets Thousand Sons do against hoard army's is keep up a substantial amount of firepower and still have the ability to move. Most space marines are forced to choose between having the opportunity to move or shoot their full amount. The Thousand Sons however do not have to make this choice.
So, for example, if you are facing a Tyranid army and you have a swarm of Gaunts hurtling at you, you can continue to retreat while maintaining a constant rate of firepower beyond 12". This also means that, because of the Thousand Sons high Leadership you are almost guaranteed to be able to target the larger Carnefex's or Synapse beasts.
Against these larger targets your Inferno Bolts ARE usually usefull as they deny all but the toughest of armour saves and can cause your enemy's Synapse to quickly collapse.

Against Orks the Thousand Sons Inferno Bolts are much less effective, as most things have armour to low for them to be usefull or to high for them to matter. The only real target that the Inferno rounds themselves would hurt would be the Ard'Boyz as they still hurt things with armour value 4.
However, never forget that your Sons can fall back while retreating. If facing Orks set your Sons far up front so they can fire at the Orks ASAP and with their Involn save you should not have too much to worry about. As the Orks get closer simply start to fall back toward your deployment zone and keep up your fire.

Thousand Sons are not effective in close combat, the sooner you get that the less pain you will have later. The Sorcerer is nice but he lacks the strength to deal with most things that will give you real grief and his Force Weapon is only helpfull against Space Marine Characters as Monstrous things are usually to tough for him to wound with any regularity.
This is in contrast with most Hoard army's which try and get into CC as fast as they can. Therefore your #1 priority is to keep your Sons out of combat at any cost.
A cheep way to do this is to buy a Rhino for them and use it as a temporary road block that must be destroyed before the enemy squad can get to your Sons, and the Rhino also helps them get into position.
If your unfortunate enough to have your Sons in combat then it is almost always worth while to send a unit to help them out in combat. A Daemon Prince or Chaos Lord made for combat is always a good choice.

Another way you can make your Thousand Sons more killy is to give the Sorcerer in the squad my favorite psychic power, Wind of Chaos.
Honestly, I could go on forever about how great this power is compaired to all the others. (Well....perhaps not Warp Time...)
Wind of Chaos takes the form of a flame templet and has a 50% chance to wound ALL things without Armor or Cover save. This power lets you wipe out large chunks of enemy units and wound tough things like Carnifex's fairly easily. The power also works wonders against Genestealers, which normally lack the numbers to survive the power. Hoard army's also normally lack Anti Psyker tools, so the power should go off on a regular bases.
Wind's range is also within that Rapid Fire distance of the Bolters of the rest of the squad, so the enemy unit should be greatly reduced if it gets within that nice "Sweat Spot" where you can Wind them and Rapid Fire.

You also don't have to rely only on Thousand Sons. A Defiler or two (Yes, I said two) should be nice for thinning out the enemy and a Daemon Prince would make a nice counter charge unit. If your not above using other marked units then I find Slaaneshi Noise Marines with lots of sonic weapons to be very effective.

Hope this helps.

Well done Aun, excellent advice. +1 Karma - Anton.
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Old 28 Apr 2008, 22:29   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army

Wow, well said. If I had a cookie jar I would give you one for that.

Interesting concept with the fighting retreat, I guess that thought just skipped my mind... I like the Defiler idea as well, since they provide even MORE firepower to begin with and if you drop the Reaper autocannon for a close combat arm you have something that can counter charge anything that gives your 1k Sons a hard time.

I think a nice squad of chosen armed with flamers will help with any infantry problems (Thanks for the idea Deneris... ) and a non-Rubric squad to just soak up fire and dish it out as well, also keeps me in the game for close combat.

I was trying to avoid vehicles for my next force, I want a pure footsloggers force (Nids don't count with all the carnifexes I use...) so I'll try to find a way around that. Winds of Chaos appears VERY powerful, that will definitely see some use. I can't see Warp Time being effective as the goal is for my Rubric Marines to AVOID close combat, I don't want to spend points for something I don't want to have to use.... Gift of Chaos looks to have some promise. Being able to turn enemy models into Spawn will halt those nasty horde armies in their tracks and lend me some more close combat support. Plus it's my favorite psychic power.

Keep the genius ideas coming!
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Old 28 Apr 2008, 22:37   #5 (permalink)
Aun
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Default Re: Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army


Quote:
I can't see Warp Time being effective as the goal is for my Rubric Marines to AVOID close combat, I don't want to spend points for something I don't want to have to use....
Well no, I would never give it to the Sons, but it works wonders on a Tzeentch Daemon Prince who can use 2 psychic powers a turn.
I normally give mine Wings, Wind of Chaos and Warp Time.

Quote:
Gift of Chaos looks to have some promise. Being able to turn enemy models into Spawn will halt those nasty horde armies in their tracks and lend me some more close combat support. Plus it's my favorite psychic power.
Actually, I don't think Gift of Chaos would be a very good power to use against a hoard army, as you would have to be within their assault range to use it and against Monstrous things it would need a 6 to turn them. (Its also expensive)

Whatever you do, stay away from Bolt of Change or I will have to whack you with the back end of my Force Weapon.
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Old 28 Apr 2008, 23:22   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army

A lash of submission person might be useful to push the hordes back in a controlled area.
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Old 29 Apr 2008, 01:17   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army

Pretty sure lash is for Slaanesh sorcerers...

Note to self: Stay away from bolt of change...
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Old 29 Apr 2008, 01:59   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army

like aun said take a daemon prince with wings, MoT, Warptime, and winds of chaos. Its not cheap but it is a fantastic combo. I take that perticular prince every time I play 1k or more and I play khorne for god's sake
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Old 29 Apr 2008, 02:05   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army

Of course, many Sons players think Demon Princes don't fit in with the fluff of the Sons- The whole Rubric fiasco was supposed to remove the taint of mutation from them. Granted, there could be non-Sons DPs that have signed a deal with your Sorcerer lord...
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Old 29 Apr 2008, 03:27   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Effective-ness of a Thousand Sons army

Quote:
Originally Posted by sionnach19
Pretty sure lash is for Slaanesh sorcerers...

Note to self: Stay away from bolt of change...
It is a Slaaneshi invention...but with a little fluff you can make it whatever you want. There aren't really any restricted army lists anymore.
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