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positive's of undivided
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Old 22 Apr 2008, 02:42   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default positive's of undivided

I was looking at the chaos codex I can see that god specific units like thousand sons receive bonuses and have differences to normal chaos space marines. I was wandering if there is any bonus' or upsides to the unidivided space marines?
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Old 22 Apr 2008, 02:55   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: positive's of undevided

from what ive seen when playing against chaos, the standard chaos marines are way more versatile then the cult marine units. each god specific unit has something it excels at. they are made to fulfill a certain role and nothing else

ex: khorne berzerkers are pure close combat specialists, while rubric marines are mid range killing machines

the standard marines are special in the fact that they can be tailored to fulfill whatever role you need them to. another benefit is the points cost. standard marines are much cheaper then the cult marines over all and can be made into cheap and effective units.

just my 2 cents

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Old 22 Apr 2008, 04:58   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: positive's of undevided

yeah, I think their main selling point is versitility and value for money. With both a bolter and a bolt pistol/cc weapon (and frag and krak grenades) as standard, they are equally usefull at range or up close. despite being a jack-of-all trades unit (much like their loyalist counterparts), their weapons loadout makes them better at it for the same points cost. The lack of the 'And They Shall Know No Fear' rule makes up for this, but against most forces this is only a drawback in the later turns of the game.
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Old 22 Apr 2008, 07:10   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: positive's of undevided

I have found that the Chaos Glory Icon is invaluable. having the ability to re-roll those failed moral checks is a massive advantage over say the +1 attack or +1 Initiative given by other marks.

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Old 22 Apr 2008, 08:45   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: positive's of undevided

For me the flavour of the Chaos codex is in the cult troops, but marines with Chaos Glory are the ideal candidates to fill the gaps and are inexpensive to boot.
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Old 22 Apr 2008, 11:20   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: positive's of undevided

Yeah thats true. Marines with the ability to reroll failed morale checks is a far bigger asset than the extra status marks (+1 toughness, initiative or 5+ invulnerable). This is because marines that pass leadership and keep on fighting are far more useful than the ones fleeing. Thats where the plus one doesn't help. But if you want marines who have say mark of Khorne, Nurgle etc... than your better of buying the cult marines, because with their mark they exceed at what they do. E.g Khorne Berserkers they have the mark but they are far better in combat than normal marines with MoK and probably cheaper too (that is only if you tool out your standard MoK marines).

But yeah all in all I think Mark of Chaos Glory ROCKS HARD.
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Old 22 Apr 2008, 12:00   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: positive's of undevided

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeH
i find Plague Marines to be completely superior point for point over undivided marines..
Undoubtedly. But it is a bit like comparing chalk with cheese. Working things out on a squad size of 10, a single undivided marine is 8 points less than a Plague Marine without upgrades. You get three for the price of two. Two plague marines will definitely last longer than three Undivided Marines, but at range those marines are 33% more effective (or something like that, MathHammer is my enemy so feel free to correct me). If your emphasis is on sticking around no matter how much shrapnel is flying around but without actually doing much else then Plague Marines are the guys for you - likewise if you fancy fielding a lot of plasma weaponry as they excel at this. If you play the strength in numbers game Undivided Marines will win out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kharvol
But if you want marines who have say mark of Khorne, Nurgle etc... than your better of buying the cult marines, because with their mark they exceed at what they do. E.g Khorne Berserkers they have the mark but they are far better in combat than normal marines with MoK and probably cheaper too (that is only if you tool out your standard MoK marines).
Point for point the cult marines are a bargain over Marked Marines for the extra stuff they get but as I said, you trade off in numbers what you gain in ability.
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Old 22 Apr 2008, 13:48   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: positive's of undevided

I find undivided marines useful in only four situations really...

1. Huge squads of doom. Too expensive for plague marines and I want them hanging around.
2. Havocs are already expensive. Undivided is cheap and keeps them from running.
3. Small objective grabbing units. They stick around and can go unnoticed, being a low priority target.
4. Terminators- the day I see my terminators lose combat against Conscripts by wiffing after the commissar hits one in the gob w/ a power sword/fist and then proceed to run me down after I roll an 11 is the day I'll eat my chaos codex

I find your strategy a bit flawed
>Plague Marines survive Plasma, one of the most common and prolific anti marine weapons in the game, 50% of the time.
>by being so tough Plague Marines will do more damage over the course of the game by not dieing.
>Sit them in cover and rooting them out becomes damn near impossible.
>10 marines for 1 heavy weapon is a rip off. Use Chosen.
On the other hand
>Plague marines are not cheap in points. Its expensive to create large units.
>Too valuable to be sacrificed
> a unit or two of cheep Undivided objective grabbers could easily go unnoticed along side the 3+ units of dangerous and/or rock hard Cultist marines.
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Old 22 Apr 2008, 15:53   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: positive's of undevided

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeH
I find your strategy a bit flawed
>Plague Marines survive Plasma, one of the most common and prolific anti marine weapons in the game, 50% of the time.
Less, they get their armour save first so what's half of one third? No arguments from me on that one, in fact I think that's what I said!

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeH
>by being so tough Plague Marines will do more damage over the course of the game by not dieing.
True, there is that, provided they are maxed out on plasma weaponry, re the above.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeH
>Sit them in cover and rooting them out becomes damn near impossible.
Well, that rather depends on what you're using to root them out with, but I see your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeH
>10 marines for 1 heavy weapon is a rip off. Use Chosen.
Again, very closely linked to the first two points, a stable platform for plasma weaponry without having to buy a mimimum of 10 models. Personally I think you're right, but that's not what I would use Undivided marines for anyway, that's what we have Havocs for.

I wasn't trying to say that Undivided Marines are as good as Plague Marines, they clearly aren't. I wasn't even really trying to make any kind of strategic point, but if I wanted to field bolter-marines in my army, I'd go for Undivided marines simply because I can have more of them. That's just me!
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Old 22 Apr 2008, 21:52   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: positive's of undevided

OK guys thanks for your help. One last question I am actually probally going to get ordinary chaos Marines and Creat my own legion. can anybody give me any advice on creating my own chaos legion?

and yes I have already read the one on the games workshop website but I didn't really give me any practical advice.
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