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Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?
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Old 17 Apr 2008, 12:36   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norn Queen
Pfeh, it's a lukewarm idea for Warhammer and a terrible one for Warhammer 40,000. They could at least make an effort with fluff... Emperor knows how, but they could try.
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say? :huh: Have you seen the Codex in person? Or is this just the Daemon related fluff in general? Because if so they're most certainly isn't a shortage on Daemon related literature, take Liber Chaotica for example, it covers every single god and it's minions, both daemonic and mortal. And I don't think a Daemon army is a terrible idea, heck they have as much power and claim in the WHFB and 40k universe than the mortal armies of Chaos do. Although I would have preferred a LatD codex, a Daemon Codex is just as intresting and looks like good fun as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norn Queen
Errrr... not to mention that Dæmonhunters are basically the worst army around to deal with them. All their dæmonhunting powers don't work on the new dæmons. Like they said about the famous song, "Dude, that's not 'ironic'. That just sucks."
That's because the Daemonhunters Codex is relatively old, and at the time of it's development I don't think the GW design team anticipated a 'Daemon Only' codex. And please take it easy on the GW slander, I won't tolerate it on this board.
I agree with her actually. They're not a 40K army. I don't have a problem with them in Fantasy, but it's like they thought "HEY! Both settings have daemons! We can release two armies and only bother making one set of models! Oh yeah... the 40k ones can have an unbound Defiler too..."

I appreciate that daemons do exist in 40k, and I think alongside Chaos armies they're pretty cool. But what I think would work better for a pure daemonic army in 40k would be to make them quite steampunky - like having them all like the Soulgrinder in little ways, rather than just having them be a Fantasy army in space. Because that's what they are, even worse than Space Elves and Orks.

Yes, I too like the models. Alongside an army of CSMs or in the Fantasy setting they work fine. But for a whole army I'd want them to at least look like they belong in the 41st Millennium. They're supposed to be coming away from the crossover in the games (apart from the existence of Chaos, of course) and then they drop these two armies that even *have the same special characters.*
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Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

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Old 17 Apr 2008, 12:53   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackoby the Circus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Norn Queen
Pfeh, it's a lukewarm idea for Warhammer and a terrible one for Warhammer 40,000. They could at least make an effort with fluff... Emperor knows how, but they could try.
I'm not entirely sure what you're trying to say? :huh: Have you seen the Codex in person? Or is this just the Daemon related fluff in general? Because if so they're most certainly isn't a shortage on Daemon related literature, take Liber Chaotica for example, it covers every single god and it's minions, both daemonic and mortal. And I don't think a Daemon army is a terrible idea, heck they have as much power and claim in the WHFB and 40k universe than the mortal armies of Chaos do. Although I would have preferred a LatD codex, a Daemon Codex is just as intresting and looks like good fun as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norn Queen
Errrr... not to mention that Dæmonhunters are basically the worst army around to deal with them. All their dæmonhunting powers don't work on the new dæmons. Like they said about the famous song, "Dude, that's not 'ironic'. That just sucks."
That's because the Daemonhunters Codex is relatively old, and at the time of it's development I don't think the GW design team anticipated a 'Daemon Only' codex. And please take it easy on the GW slander, I won't tolerate it on this board.
I agree with her actually. They're not a 40K army. I don't have a problem with them in Fantasy, but it's like they thought "HEY! Both settings have daemons! We can release two armies and only bother making one set of models! Oh yeah... the 40k ones can have an unbound Defiler too..."

I appreciate that daemons do exist in 40k, and I think alongside Chaos armies they're pretty cool. But what I think would work better for a pure daemonic army in 40k would be to make them quite steampunky - like having them all like the Soulgrinder in little ways, rather than just having them be a Fantasy army in space. Because that's what they are, even worse than Space Elves and Orks.

Yes, I too like the models. Alongside an army of CSMs or in the Fantasy setting they work fine. But for a whole army I'd want them to at least look like they belong in the 41st Millennium. They're supposed to be coming away from the crossover in the games (apart from the existence of Chaos, of course) and then they drop these two armies that even *have the same special characters.*
From a fluff PoV, Daemon-only armies defo have a place. What do you think Daemon Worlds are all about? Admittedly, you would think they're localised more around the various Warp anomalies like the EoT and the Maelstrom, but heck, as long as it's a fun army to play with/against, why not, I say?

From a business PoV... the fact that people are starting to think £12 for 10 models is a good deal is definitely a positive thing. It might mean that GW is trying to disperse the cloud of negativity that's arisen over all their price hikes in recent years. Daemons are one of those ubiquitously popular armies that is bound to make good sales as long as they don't appear to be overcharging. The same thing started to happen with some of the undead stuff... okay, £12 for 10 skellies doesn't seem so tempting, but 10 Dire Wolves for the same price seems ridiculously good by comparison. A friend who worked for GW until recently tells me it's basically down to what they can fit on a sprue that determines the price of a unit, though I'm not really sure how this works...

Anyway, let's hope this is a trend that continues...
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Old 17 Apr 2008, 13:08   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?

I gotta agree that the all Demon army is kinda weak for 40K... a cultist/demon list would have been much, much nicer.
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Old 17 Apr 2008, 13:23   #4 (permalink)
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Default Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extartius
From a fluff PoV, Daemon-only armies defo have a place. What do you think Daemon Worlds are all about? Admittedly, you would think they're localised more around the various Warp anomalies like the EoT and the Maelstrom, but heck, as long as it's a fun army to play with/against, why not, I say?
I didn't say Daemonic armies didn't have a place. I'm happy they had the idea in principle.

But if I were to do a 40K Daemons army, I'd convert them up to be more technomagical, like the Soulgrinder is. So they actually look like they belong in the same universe. And I'd rather they did... hell, they wouldn't even need an entirely new sprue - just an upgrade sprue for the Fantasy kits, so that it was the "proper" way, rather than me just being weird. I'm happy to be weird, but I think that way makes more sense.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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Old 17 Apr 2008, 13:29   #5 (permalink)
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Default Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Norn Queen
Errrr... not to mention that Dæmonhunters are basically the worst army around to deal with them. All their dæmonhunting powers don't work on the new dæmons. Like they said about the famous song, "Dude, that's not 'ironic'. That just sucks."
Kudos for using the 'æ.'
Very stylish

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Old 17 Apr 2008, 13:49   #6 (permalink)
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Default Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackoby the Circus
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extartius
From a fluff PoV, Daemon-only armies defo have a place. What do you think Daemon Worlds are all about? Admittedly, you would think they're localised more around the various Warp anomalies like the EoT and the Maelstrom, but heck, as long as it's a fun army to play with/against, why not, I say?
I didn't say Daemonic armies didn't have a place. I'm happy they had the idea in principle.

But if I were to do a 40K Daemons army, I'd convert them up to be more technomagical, like the Soulgrinder is. So they actually look like they belong in the same universe. And I'd rather they did... hell, they wouldn't even need an entirely new sprue - just an upgrade sprue for the Fantasy kits, so that it was the "proper" way, rather than me just being weird. I'm happy to be weird, but I think that way makes more sense.
A Steam-punk daemon army is definitely a cool-sounding idea. I don't know whether they will have given that any thought or not, but it shouldn't be too hard to achieve. I think the Daemonettes already look quite punky, add steam to taste!

For me, from reading the fluff and various black library publications, Daemons are the stuff of the aether, more or less pure energy, so adding 40k style machinery doesn't necessarily fit with the background - although it would LOOK fantastic. This is why, although I like the look of the Soulgrinder, I don't really think it has a place.

My argument may be findamentally flawed, but overall I'm not too opposed to the army or the way it looks.
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Old 17 Apr 2008, 13:57   #7 (permalink)
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Default Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?

Not even a cultist army, but just giving Lost and Damned their own codex, or creating rules for a renegade human list that doesn't necessarily (although it can) worship Chaos. Some folks like me want to play small fleets of space pirates, marauders, rustlers, cutthroats, murderers, bounty hunters, desperadoes, mugs, pugs, thugs, nitwits, halfwits, dimwits, vipers, snipers, con men, Indian agents, Mexican bandits, muggers, buggerers, bushwhackers, hornswagglers, horse thieves, bull dykes, train robbers, bank robbers, asskickers, shitkickers and Methodists. ;D
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Old 17 Apr 2008, 14:07   #8 (permalink)
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Default Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?

I love the bizarre additions you've dropped in there, Juggler... truly bizarre. Bull dykes? Such a staple amongst pirate crews... :
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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Old 17 Apr 2008, 14:27   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackoby the Circus
I love the bizarre additions you've dropped in there, Juggler... truly bizarre. Bull dykes? Such a staple amongst pirate crews... :
The reference is to the perennial classic Blazing Saddles, where Harvey Korman did cite the list of all the different types of villains he wanted recruited into his army to take over rock ridge.
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Old 17 Apr 2008, 14:37   #10 (permalink)
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Default Codex Daemons: Too fantasy for 40k?

That's upsetting - here I am thinking it's just from your imagination!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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