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dreadnoughts useful or not?
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 17:58   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default dreadnoughts useful or not?

i was looking at the chaos dreadnought and it looked pretty cool, but i'm kinda worried about the 'crazed' rule, i mean the chance of rolling a six or a one is quite reasonable, are they of any use?

also the only dreadnoughts i've seen are normal SM ones and they seem to draw a lot of fire, most of the time they just get killed, espcially when facing a tau broadside or something?

so are dreadnoughts useful at all?
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 18:13   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: dreadnoughts useful or not?

Well, overall they are decent units, able to hold out on their own and they are just like any other vehicle; vulnerable to high strength weaponry.

But about the Chaos Dreadnought's hidden charm;

They do not get crazy that often as one would expect out of them (rolling 1 or 6 does not occur very often, unless you have some weird D'yi luck), and they are practical enough to support your entire advance with their weaponry. Most often people would focus them either on anti-tank or close combat, of which the former is the better in my opinion (This is coming from a Death Guard player, Death Guard often lacking in anti-tank weaponry so I am a little biased.) as they an supplement your anti-tank capabilities.

If you do get the fire frenzy, most often than not the vehicle or unit that are targetted by the Dreadnought will feel the pain. I once am at the receiving end of three dreadnoughts who all Fire Frenzied at once, and thus three of my Devilfishes went down so yes, fire frenzy is nasty if you are at the receiving end of it.

But if it does get the other Frenzy, well it is fine as well as now it will pressure the opponent even more, and thus saving the lives of my other men. If it ever went into close combat tht way, it is fine as well as most infantry struggle to kill a Walker with an AV of 12. Most of te time, you can pin an enemy unit for some time and it can be a good thing indeed.

To use them effectively, they are like any other Imperial Vehicle; be a Ninja. Hide and use the terrain to protect the dreadnought and increase its chance of survivable and kill more of your opponent's unit.

And remember another more vital trick with them; MOVE THEM FIRST. The reason being is because if they do get into a Fire Frenzy, you know where to avoid so that you can prevent yourself getting killed by your own Dreadnought. Remember, they can only shoot things that are within their line of sight AND THEN pivots to the target that is within its line of sight, and thus you can move at the borders of that 'limit' and not get shot at.

It is also a fun unit to game with. You will never know what will happen in a turn.

My 0.02 cents about the Chaos Dreadnought.
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 18:27   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: dreadnoughts useful or not?

I have seen a chaos player who fields two dreds side by side, each armed with two melee weapons, tl bolter, and Heavy flamer. if one gets fire frenzy, it shoots the other in the side and does... Nothing!!! Meanwhile, the Blood rage lets them close faster than some opponents would expect. Not a bad way to do it. I have also seen a long range dread used to close a fire lane on a board edge by sitting in cover, with 7+" of area terrain between it and the rest of the chaos army. If it runs forward, the chaos player then just moves him back next turn.
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 20:11   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: dreadnoughts useful or not?

My personal opinion on dreads is that they make relatively cheap anti-tank platforms for low points games. They are rather vulnerable, so generally I gear my Black Templars one for CC and send it in with a drop pod, which increases it's survivability a great amount. Since Chaos does not have the option of drop pods, I don't have as much knowledge there... only two options I really see are:

1) Like Crisis Viper said, ninja it. Keep it in cover or behind enough units to justify some nasty target priority tests. Useful if you're moving it forward. If you want to keep it back and shoot stuff, use it to dominate ONE side of the board. Keep it protected from shots ranging from other parts, and let it control one part (per say, anything moving on the right side of the board).

2) Minimal or no upgrades, run alongside your rhinos towards the enemy. More than likely, it will get shot down. But your rhinos, while worth less points, should hold capable assault troops (berserkers) That should justify the sacrifice, if it gets shot down. most opponents would target the more menacing looking dreadnought before turning their anti tank guns to the unarmed rhino.

My $.02
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 20:58   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: dreadnoughts useful or not?

I think they're a good choice, but I tend not to use them after it went mad and decided to take the last wound off of my sorcerer, then continue to rip apart the rear end of my rhino, which took 4 chaos marines along with it...

But I think they're good if you happen to be lucky with the dice. They have some nice ranged weapons choices, and their dreadnought close combat weapon is pretty mean... Although, I'm not sure about you, but I hate the model, so I made one out of a Loyalist Space marine dreadnought...
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 23:57   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: dreadnoughts useful or not?

Heya,

The Dreadnought is an A12 tin can that blows up if you sneeze at it, or sometimes, it just attacks your own stuff. It's there to look cool and make you feel like you're got a neato model. Mean while, it's a point sink with minimal damage output for its cost and sucks up one of your very valuable elite slots. Terminators are a superior choice in every single manner.

Cheers,
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Old 07 Apr 2008, 02:51   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: dreadnoughts useful or not?

Could always, give it short range wepons like a multi melta and keep it far away from your other units.
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Old 07 Apr 2008, 12:30   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: dreadnoughts useful or not?

My own experiences urge me to agree with MalVeaux. I bought a Forge World Dread with 2xCCW because - let's face it - it's an awesome model. I don't think it's been in more than one combat in every game I've played with it.

However, I'm the perseverent type and am willing to keep it in the list as I venture into using the new codex. 120 points may be a point's sink, but you can buy what? 3-4 Terminators for those points? Personally I just like my dread more, and once I've perfected my Ninja training, hopefully I'll get into a few more close combats.

I did spend quite a long time wishing I'd put some long-range anti-tank punch onto it, but what the hey!
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Old 08 Apr 2008, 11:00   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: dreadnoughts useful or not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extartius
My own experiences urge me to agree with MalVeaux.
Same.

Dreadnoughts look very cool on the board, they're tons of fun to paint, and, especially for chaos, they can be conversion central. However, when you're actually fighting them, you realize that you've just wasted all these points.
They are extremely fragile, for a unit that's supposed to be fighting a lot. Although their AV of 12 doesn't seem bad when you think of it at first, any anti-tank weapon worth half it's weight in....anything will be able to take this baby down on turn two or three. That doesn't give you much time to do all of this supposed damage, does it?
Also, it takes up an elite slot. While a Dreadnought is exactly the same (armor wise) as a Defiler, there's a huge difference in that for Chaos lists, usually there's a shortage of elite slots, and not heavy support slots. So when I say a Dreadnought isn't worth it's points because it's so fragile, that doesn't mean that a Defiler isn't worth it's points because it's just as fragile because I disagree.
Instead, Terminators are more reliable, and/or Possessed are more fun. You could get almost 5 Terminators for the cost of a single dreadnought, or probably around 7/8 (didn't do the math, but you get the point) Possessed.
It just doesn't seem worth it to me, because unlike the Defiler, it doesn't have the amazing firepower to do enough damage to make it worth its own points by the time it dies (which is almost inevitable).
I know from experience, when facing Marines, one of the first things I will target is that juicy dreadnought. Your enemies don't want it on the field for long, which is lucky for them because it's one of those units where if they don't want it, you won't have it.
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Old 09 Apr 2008, 09:04   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: dreadnoughts useful or not?

Quote:
To use them effectively, they are like any other Imperial Vehicle; be a Ninja.
Why do I suddenly get the mental image of a hulking dreadnought, wearing massive black robes and a huge ski mask, lumbering quickly between the shadows of buildings......

I'm about to commence a Thousand Sons force, and I'm thinking of taking both a defiler and a dread. Taking the dread over the termies was more of a thematic choice, since terminators cannot be rubric marines (course, after giving them the mark of tzeentch, there isnt much difference, but im a picky bastard....)
Having faced chaos dreads on the field of battle many times, I can say with certainty that they are quite irritating, especially if you have several armoured targets to shoot at, and not many tank-busting weapons.....
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