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RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer
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Old 23 Mar 2008, 20:25   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer

i was just curious what your gaming group plays when it comes to the plaguebringer and "Poisoned weapons" rule in general.

To compare the sides:

Read As Written: no matter whether it's a T2 Grot or a T8 Wraithlord (i think they're T8) you will need a 4+ to wound. Silly ruling, as it makes your strength value not matter at all anymore.

Intention (i believe): Played like daemonic venom in the previous codex. should read "Will never need more than 4+ to wound" rather than the way it's worded now.

Just a question as to what your gaming group does. mine is the latter of the two, but I'd like some thoughts.
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Old 23 Mar 2008, 21:09   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer

I noticed that, I'd probably use the first one.. but I'm guessing it was designed the be the second...
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Old 23 Mar 2008, 21:41   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer



I wouldnt have a problem, seeing as though chaos lords are usually str 4 anyways (their is an exception) but most of the time str 4 is still doable.

So your either wounding on 2`s, 3`s , or 4`s
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Old 24 Mar 2008, 15:16   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer

For friendly game, I'd have no problem with the "never need more than 4+". For a tournament, you'd better be using the official rule (although if the judges rule in your favor on that rule, more power to you).
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Old 24 Mar 2008, 15:58   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer

We always interpret Poisoned Attacks as the latter. No such thing as "only ever wounding on a 4+". Even the tournament here uses the same concept.

If it is intepreted as the former, that is just some dumbass interpretation. :
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Old 24 Mar 2008, 16:22   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
If it is intepreted as the former, that is just some dumbass interpretation. :
Or it is someone who's reading the rules as they are written. A FAQ or clarification on this would be nice.

At any rate, if you are going to play in a tournament, you should find out how that rule is used for each tournament, so that you are not caught unaware. And in a friendly game, you should come to agreement with your opponent as to what it means.
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Old 24 Mar 2008, 23:06   #7 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer

"Always wound on 4+" means exactly that. It is a balance issue.

Take the classic example of the Dark Eldar list; the Reaver Archon. With Power Weapon, he is Str 4. With Agoniser, he is Str X (always wound on 4+).

So, what happens when he charges the Imperial Guard? P-Wep Archon wounds on 3s, Agoniser-Archon wounds on 4s. That is how the rule is written, and it balances the fact that the Agoniser-Archon will still be wounding on 4s when be bounces headlong into a Wraithlord, whilst P-Wep Archon will be clutching his Shadowfield and whimpering "anything but a 1!" This isn't an area where you can claim that the designers "intended" you to wound weaker enemies as normal, because they didn't! It is part of the balancing system of the rule that you become weaker against weaker enemies, as Poisoned Weapons make you proportionately stronger against stronger enemies. There is no mistake in the entry. The reason it may seem you are overcharged for this ability is because GW expects you to use it properly; if a Dark Eldar player knows he's facing T3 or less, he'll use Power Weapons. If facing T4, he'll use Agonisers on foot and Power Weapons on Reavers. If facing T5 or more, he'll use Agonisers all round. Because of this, the Agoniser is worth more even if you don't use it properly; your own incompitence does not negate the intended function of the weapon. The same applies to the Chaos Codex.

In other words, you are wounding Grots on a 4+. The answer is simple; either don't use your Poisoned Weapon, or don't charge Grots!
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Old 25 Mar 2008, 21:55   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyCool
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
If it is intepreted as the former, that is just some dumbass interpretation. :
Or it is someone who's reading the rules as they are written.
Amen!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
"Always wound on 4+" means exactly that. It is a balance issue.
.....
In other words, you are wounding Grots on a 4+. The answer is simple; either don't use your Poisoned Weapon, or don't charge Grots!
Exactly! You've got a Bolt Pistol too. So switch to your "additional close combat weapon" when fighting T3 or weaker opponents. It's that easy.
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Old 30 Mar 2008, 11:04   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
"Always wound on 4+" means exactly that. It is a balance issue.

Take the classic example of the Dark Eldar list; the Reaver Archon. With Power Weapon, he is Str 4. With Agoniser, he is Str X (always wound on 4+).

So, what happens when he charges the Imperial Guard? P-Wep Archon wounds on 3s, Agoniser-Archon wounds on 4s. That is how the rule is written, and it balances the fact that the Agoniser-Archon will still be wounding on 4s when be bounces headlong into a Wraithlord, whilst P-Wep Archon will be clutching his Shadowfield and whimpering "anything but a 1!" This isn't an area where you can claim that the designers "intended" you to wound weaker enemies as normal, because they didn't! It is part of the balancing system of the rule that you become weaker against weaker enemies, as Poisoned Weapons make you proportionately stronger against stronger enemies. There is no mistake in the entry. The reason it may seem you are overcharged for this ability is because GW expects you to use it properly; if a Dark Eldar player knows he's facing T3 or less, he'll use Power Weapons. If facing T4, he'll use Agonisers on foot and Power Weapons on Reavers. If facing T5 or more, he'll use Agonisers all round. Because of this, the Agoniser is worth more even if you don't use it properly; your own incompitence does not negate the intended function of the weapon. The same applies to the Chaos Codex.

In other words, you are wounding Grots on a 4+. The answer is simple; either don't use your Poisoned Weapon, or don't charge Grots!
considering this answer has pretty much silenced the issue, the argument has been resolved and none disagrees we may as well lock this thread methinks. :
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Old 30 Mar 2008, 18:26   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: RAW vs. Intention: Plaguebringer

There is a collection of tournament ruling of tricky rules somewhere. I don't know where to find it other than at my local gaming joint, but it could address that issue. If not, I'd have to say that always a 4 to wound means always a 4 to wound. RAW is how you have to play it if there's no errata that says otherwise.
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