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How viable is this?
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Old 18 Mar 2008, 02:55   #1 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default How viable is this?

With every game that I have played, I always find myself at the receiving end of any force that have armoured vehicles due to the fact that my Death Guard have a severe problem with vehicles. And since I am play a mechanized army, it is vital that I dominate the field with my vehicles.

However, it seems that I have yet to find an effective solution to the problem. I have tried and used obliterators, and I like their versatility, but they are rather slow and honestly they do not really take the target off the board, as most of the time the weapons that are most frequently used are the lascannon and plasma cannon, which mostly have somewhat 50-50 chance of even getting the vehicle. And if fielded en mass, they defeat the purpose of my mechanized army.

For the predator, I find that the twin-linked lascannons are a little redundant (but servicable) and also being a vehicle with heavy weaponry, it will be targeted straight up. The same goes with those with lascannon sponsons.

Defiler...well, they die too fast. So I guess I will move on then. The Vindicator and landraiders are huge fire magnets and thus not very viable for me.

The thing that I seek for my anti-tank is that they are able to kill things on the move, but also posed less of a fire magnet, and is not that painful for me if they die. And thus as I looked into the codex, I found a certain unit that can help me with my endeavor; Chaos Bikers. Now before I begin, I used to use the bikers, but in large squads and with the Mark of Nurgle. But that often means that they are the first to go as well.

But now, I noticed that I do not need to mark them and I do not need to take such a big squad, instead I ca just go with the minimum of three with meltaguns, meltabombs and also upgrade one into a champion with a powerfist if the points are available. They are fast enough, small enough, and potent enough to become anti-tank platforms.


Here is what I planned;

Chaos Bikers
3 Bikers with meltabombs
2 x meltagun

total pts: 134 pts


And actually I could take a potential of two squads of them, to compliment/replace my predators and obliterators in the anti-tank role.

So what do you think about the configuration?



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Old 18 Mar 2008, 03:26   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: How viable is this?

Bikes are very fragile... And a big priority for any smart player. They are also very expensive for what is essentially a raptor with higher thoughness.


I know from experiance... my alpha legion army has nearly 15 of them (when i finish off the last three). So from my experiance of 12 bikers... they won't last long if your opponent knows what to shoot. Also consider the range of what your shooting from the compared to what you are shooting from a pred or oblit.
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Old 18 Mar 2008, 03:50   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: How viable is this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD
Bikes are very fragile... And a big priority for any smart player. They are also very expensive for what is essentially a raptor with higher thoughness. I know from experiance... my alpha legion army has nearly 15 of them (when i finish off the last three). So from my experiance of 12 bikers... they won't last long if your opponent knows what to shoot.
Fair enough. I used to use 7 Plague Bikers along with a Nurgle Biker Lord, and I know the pain very well, and vividly.

Hence my decision to keep them undivided and very small.

Quote:
Also consider the range of what your shooting from the compared to what you are shooting from a pred or oblit.
Well, I wuld prefer longer-ranged weaponry, but I also want their shot to count very well. I used to be a Tau player who uses Markerlights very heavily for my anti-tank, so I gues bad habits dies hard.

My list currently have 2 predators and one squad of 2 obliterators that have lascannons, but other than that, nothing else cab penetrate heavy armour. I got 6 str 7 or so weapons in my Death Guard, which I believe is sufficient for anything but heavy vehicles. It is not too good when your obliterators are often not in range for their other more deadly weapons (Multi-melta is my preferred weapon).

So is there a better solutoion for primary anti-tank weaponry platform?
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Old 18 Mar 2008, 05:37   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How viable is this?

Not exactly on-topic, but I am highly amused because as an Ork player, I immediately thought, "Spikey Beakie Bikers".

Say that five times and laugh!
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Old 18 Mar 2008, 05:38   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: How viable is this?

I like the idea but it's very similar to the 5 man raptor tank-hunting squad. Considering +1T and turboboost, it isn't actually that much more fragile but there are a couple of much smaller factors which make the raptors my prefered choice of the two.

The first thing I'd worry about is once they hit their target they might get bogged up in combat by a guardsmen squad or something similar. With only 4 attacks at full strength(compared to the raptors 10), it would take them a while to cut their way through anything.

Secondly, If the melta shots fail raptors can once again have potentially far more krak grenade attacks on the tank (Assuming they can actually hurt the armour side they were facing)

Finally, there durability comes in numbers which is with them all the time and not just when they turboboost.

So as you can see, all three of those are really quite minor points but the way I see it, better safe than sorry so I personally like the raptors more.

I would say no to the idea of a powerfist though. If you add another 40pts on to that squad, it starts becoming a pretty large investment for just 3 models. Also, the way I read the bike entry only the unit champion can take meltabombs.
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Old 18 Mar 2008, 09:21   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: How viable is this?

I have never played Chaos, but considering that my Assault troops are better with melta-bombs than my bikes with melta-bombs, I would go Raptors.
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Old 18 Mar 2008, 14:51   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: How viable is this?

I play mech Death Guard and know the problems you can face when trying to bust lots of tanks. I use the following in my list for anti tank-

Predator with Autocannon + Las sponsons
Generally sits still and dishes out punishment. It is a fire magnet but its fairly cheap and if my opponent is shooting that, he's not shooting my more important units.

Raptors
Equipped with 2x melta's and a power fist this unit can cause some serious trouble if it gets close. I use my PM rhino's to shield them from the worst of the damage and once they get close I use their good movement to get point blank (6") shots on side or rear armour. If the target survives you can then always assalt with your power fist and krak grenades.

Daemon Princes
Although I prefer using these to take on infantry, they can switch to an anti tank role and do well. Don't forget that DP's are monstrous creatures so get 2D6 + STR when rolling for penetration, this gives them an average of 13. Give them wings and like the raptors you can use your high movement to get to the side and rear armour.

The above are my main anti tank units but every unit in my list has some anti tank capability-

Terminators
These can be tooled up for tank busting but my unit is generally for taking down infantry and drawing fire. I generally have a 6 man unit with 2x melta combi's, 1x heavy flamer and 1x power/chain fist. There main role is to deep strike and go hunting for infantry. Although I don't plan for them to go tank hunting if my opponent is foolish enough to leave/move his armour too close to them they are perfectly capable to put 2 melta shots into them and possibly follow up with an assalt wit a power/chain fist.

Plague Marines
I take these in a rhino with 2x Plasma guns and a powerfist. Their main role is up close anti infantry firepower/assalt. Due to the fact that they will be in and around my opponents deployment zone it is possible to shoot and assalt side armour. Rapid firing plasma or assalting with your power fist and krak grenades at the side armour can hurt, due to the fact that even heavy tanks (Russ) generally only have a side AV of 12.

Predators with autocannon and heavy bolter's
These are almost purely in the list for cutting down infantry hordes. That said I usually keep the moving down the flanks (1 either side) and later on in the game I can usually get a shot on side armour if I want to. I generally don't bother with with this most of the time but it can give you that little edge if you need it. If I do decide to go for the side armour my favorite targets are other predators or other AV11 targets. Against these these even the heavy bolters can glance and the autocannon can easily punch through.

Anyway that is how I approach my tank problems with my list, hope it helps. I think that the best way is to have a flexable list that can give you options all over the table. This keeps your opponent on his/her toes and ensures that even if you lose your main units you can still pull off a suprise to win the game. The only real problem that I have had so far was against a list with 3 Landraiders, but how often do you face an army like that?

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Old 18 Mar 2008, 23:20   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: How viable is this?

I totally forgotten about the Terminators. Thanks for reminding me about them, Sardis Varn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sardis Varrn
The only real problem that I have had so far was against a list with 3 Landraiders, but how often do you face an army like that?
I faced that list just last week. And I managed to pop two of the in the first turn thanks to lucky shots from an obliterator and the Daemon Prince assaultin the other. The crusader went down after the Autocannon/Lascannon sponson predator pivots on the spot and fires at it point blank range.

But yes, if it have gone like any other game, I would have a bitch of a time killing three of them.
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