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Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 04:19   #1 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons

Well, generally I don't like Chaos but after reading a lot of background etc. I decided that Tzeentch wasn't too bad and I've actually grown to like him and the Thousand Sons.

I currently collect Tau and Imperial Guard (with allied DH), but my Tau are extremly frustrating to paint (almost white armour, black recesses!) and my IG are all in camo gear, so I am considering buying a few models to paint up, like a display army (but without all the extra effort involved).

This would be my third army, I want to make sure it would play different than my other armies.
My Tau currently are more of a balanced mobile (infantry), long range force.
My IG are either Drop Troops or Light Infantry (with maybe some lighter vehicles - up to Hellhound).
So do Thousand Sons play differently enough to make it worthwhile collecting them?

Personally I've had my eyes on Thousand Sons for a while now, and I like the amount of magic they can use, as well as the Egyptian theme. If I was to collect them, I'd probably get 2 squads and a HQ to start with, then add in some Tzeentch daemons when that codex comes out (Screamers are awesome).

I don't know how many models I would be able to purchase, as I have to buy for other armies and paint up what I still have. At this stage, it would probably be about a couple of squads a year...
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 15:28   #2 (permalink)
Anton
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Default Re: Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal585
So do Thousand Sons play differently enough to make it worthwhile collecting them?
I've just covered that on the following topic: Help on starting Thousand Sons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal585
I don't know how many models I would be able to purchase, as I have to buy for other armies and paint up what I still have. At this stage, it would probably be about a couple of squads a year...
Covering the Compulsory 1 HQ and 2 Troops is a good start, however I would recommend that you buy the Codex first. That aside, there are a number of ways you can get started:

H.Q - You have four options for H.Q, they are the Chaos Lord, the Chaos Sorcerer, the Summoned Greater Daemon and the Daemon Prince. The Chaos Lord is designed purely for C.C., with access to the very potent Daemon Weapon(s) a Lord can easily hack apart a squad of enemy Infantry on his own. A Chaos Lord can also be marked by any one of the four Chaos Gods, or he can remain unmarked. A Tzeentch Chaos Lord will get the bonus of a 4+ Inv. Save and access to the Tzeentch Daemon Weapon: the Deathscreamer which can be used as both a shooting and close combat weapon. A Chaos Lord has access to the traditional H.Q weapons: Twin Lightning Claws, Power Weapons, Powerfists etc... The Chaos Lord has many options, most of which are focused on the assault phase, where the Chaos Lord really shines.

The other H.Q option is the Chaos Sorcerer. The Chaos Sorcerer is less 'aggressive' than the Chaos Lord and has access to a range of shooting and close combat psychic powers. A Chaos Sorcerer comes equipped with a Force Weapon as standard, and what Psychic Powers you give him can be determined by what mark you give him. An unmarked Chaos Sorcerer has access to the non-mark specific psychic powers, for example were you to give your Sorcerer the Mark of Nurgle he would have access to the non-mark specific powers and the Nurgle psychic power: Nurgles Rot. Whatever mark you give your Sorcerer (except Khorne!) will determine what God specific psychic powers you would gain access to. A Tzeentch Sorcerer gets the bonus of a 4+ Inv. and the ability to purchase two psychic powers, use both powers in the same turn (not two shooting powers however,) and gain access to take the Tzeentch specific power: Bolt of Change. The most efficient psychic power available to a Chaos Sorcerer is Warp Time, which not only is non-mark specific, but can also allow the Chaos Sorcerer (at the start of your turn) to re-roll any failed to hit rolls and to wound rolls! The Chaos Sorcerer has many options and can be made into a very potent killer.

As for models, you could use the new: Chaos Terminator Lord/Sorcerer where you get enough components to build either a Terminator Lord or a Terminator Sorcerer. Or if you do not wish to give your Lord or Sorcerer Terminator Armour then you could use the: Chaos Lord or if you want a Sorcerer the: Chaos Sorcerer.

Next we have the Summoned Greater Daemon. A Summoned Greater Daemon must be summoned into battle, and can possess the body of either a Champion, Aspiring Sorcerer, Chaos Sorcerer or Chaos Lord. When the Greater Daemon is summoned, the model which possessed the Greater Daemon is destroyed. The Summoned Greater Daemon is an outright bargain for what you get! It counts as a monstrous creature and is also fearless.

As you want to play a Tzeentch army, the Greater Daemon of Tzeentch would be a great model to use for your Summoned Greater Daemon.

And finally (thanks to Masked Thespian for reminding me ) the Daemon Prince. Like the Summoned Greater Daemon, the Daemon Prince is very good value for points. Daemon Princes can be marked and can also take Psychic Powers (with the exception of a Khornate Daemon Prince,) they cannot be Instantly Killed and also count as monstrous creatures. The even greater bonus with a Daemon Prince is that it counts as a scoring unit!? A Tzeentch Daemon Prince has the bonus of a 4+ Inv. Save, access to two psychic powers and can use two psychic power per turn (unfortunately you can't use two shooting psychic powers in the same turn.) Two essential upgrades for a Daemon Prince are 1.) Wings - which can enhance the speed of your Daemon Prince dramatically, increasing it's chances of getting into combat with more wounds, and 2.) Warp Time - A Daemon Prince with Warp Time is just insanely powerful, with an already very powerful statline Warp Time should guarantee that most if not every attack will hit and wound. Daemon Princes are perhaps the most powerful H.Q choice available, however the Daemon Prince is a big target and thus they attract an ungodly amount of enemy fire.

The Daemon Prince model is all metal, and very good looking. However if you decide to give your Daemon Prince wings, paying a visit to the Conversion board and asking for some advice on how to make wings and which wings are best is a good idea.

Troops - For your Troops choices you the option of taking the following: Chaos Space Marines, Thousand Sons and Summoned Lesser Daemons. I'm not covering the entire Troops choices as your essentially only intrested in Tzeentch (which saves me some time. :P) Chaos Space Marines are brilliant, they come with a Bolter, Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon, Frag and Krak Grenades as standard! They also have the option of taking an Aspiring Champion, Chaos Icons, Heavy Weapons and Special Weapons. With the Icon of Tzeentch your Chaos Space Marines will receive a 5+ Inv. Save. Chaos Space Marines are the most flexible Troops choice in the game, and are perfect for anyone starting a Chaos Space Marine army.

The Chaos Space Marine box set is a good buy, giving you 10 Chaos Space Marines, upgrades to make an Aspiring Champion, the option to take a Chaos Icon, a Flamer, a Meltagun or a Plasmagun plus a Heavy Bolter as well.

The second option for your Troops are the Thousand Sons. The Thousand Sons are a specialised unit (e.g. Eldar Aspect Warriors) and are perfect at annihilating any enemy unit that has a 3+ save (e.g. Loyalist Space Marines.) The Thousand Sons come equipped only with bolters, however they do have the Inferno Bolts special rule which makes their Bolters AP3! The Thousand Sons are also fearless, have a 4+ Inv. Save and are Slow and Purposeful. The Thousand Sons squad can be lead by an Aspiring Sorcerer, who can take psychic powers and comes equipped with a Force Weapon as standard. Of course this does not come cheap in points, and you will notice that you will always be outnumbered.

With the Thousand Sons box set you get 8 Thousand Sons and an Aspiring Sorcerer.

Third and finally are the Summoned Lesser Daemons. Summoned Lesser Daemon must always be summoned into battle, which means you need at least 1 Chaos Icon or Personal Icon (which is available for the Chaos Lord, Sorcerer or Thousand Sons Aspiring Sorcerer.) Summoned Lesser Daemons cost less than Chaos Space Marines and come with a single close combat weapon as standard. Summoned Lesser Daemons are great as tar-pit/speed bump units and with a 5+ Inv. and fearlessness can tie-up powerful enemy assault or shooting units and prevent them from reaching your more valuable units.

To represent Tzeentch Lesser Daemons you could use the Horrors of Tzeentch box set.

I hope this helped you out.



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Old 15 Mar 2008, 15:37   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons

Anton, is there any particular reason you missed out the Daemon Prince as an option in the HQ section?
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 19:12   #4 (permalink)
Anton
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Default Re: Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked Thespian
Anton, is there any particular reason you missed out the Daemon Prince as an option in the HQ section?
Uh... Brain Slug? :P I'm on it, don't worry.
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 19:42   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons

I don't think you can use a summoned greater daemon as a HQ unit. It acts as a HQ unit, but doesn't use any FOC requirements.

Fluff wise, though, I would go with a sorcerer because they go with the thousand son's fluff, and they "P'wn teh server" :P
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 23:12   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons

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Originally Posted by Bubgum
I don't think you can use a summoned greater daemon as a HQ unit. It acts as a HQ unit, but doesn't use any FOC requirements.
My apologies if this may seem rude, but what on earth are you on about? :-\ I'm fully aware that the Greater Daemon doesn't occupy a HQ slot on the FOC chart, however I feel it's still a viable HQ unit, hence the reason why I mentioned it, otherwise my post would have been unfair as I wouldn't have covered all of the HQ units available to a Chaos Space Marine army.
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Old 16 Mar 2008, 03:31   #7 (permalink)
Cal
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Default Re: Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons

Thanks for that Anton!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal585
So do Thousand Sons play differently enough to make it worthwhile collecting them?
I've just covered that on the following topic: Help on starting Thousand Sons.
Well I know they are slow, resilient units that rely on magic and shooting. But I was just wondering how similar the game play is to Tau or Imperial Guard, with both of the above being shooting armies and bad in combat as well. And how useful is magic these days against armies such as Eldar who are psychically orientated to some degree? I think the magic is what really appeals to me, and denying those Necrons their armour saves. :P

For theme, I wasn't sure whether to go with pure Thousand Sons, Thousand Sons with other Tzeentch help or a force of Ahriman's (does he actually work with Thousand Sons troops still?)
I wasn't sure if Lords were actually used in Thousand Sons forces and whether there is a point where one can have too much magic in an army...
At the moment, I'm looking at getting 2 boxed sets of Thousand Sons and a Sorceror, if I'm ever allowed... and then eventually expanding from there. (FW goodies!)

I probably won't go Chaos Space Marines though, as that kinda takes away from a thousand Sons force.

Oh and about the codex, my friend is starting up Black Legion (so I could maybe lend some TS to him), so I'll probably steal rules from him.
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Old 16 Mar 2008, 03:50   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons

Anton,

Thanks for taking the time to help out Diabloelmo and Cal585 with this excellent advice. (The addition of all of those relevant links was also a nice touch!)

+1 Karma for your efforts to help out our newer Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, and Daemon Princes,
Ged
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Old 16 Mar 2008, 11:19   #9 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubgum
I don't think you can use a summoned greater daemon as a HQ unit. It acts as a HQ unit, but doesn't use any FOC requirements.
My apologies if this may seem rude, but what on earth are you on about? :-\ I'm fully aware that the Greater Daemon doesn't occupy a HQ slot on the FOC chart, however I feel it's still a viable HQ unit, hence the reason why I mentioned it, otherwise my post would have been unfair as I wouldn't have covered all of the HQ units available to a Chaos Space Marine army.
No, you don't sound rude at all, and you have a good point I was going to write something back to that, but my plan failed in my mind :P
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus
Circus: Yes well Bubgum we've been gradually establishing today that you're wrong
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton
Anton: I placed the broom between my legs, engaged the engine, applied the gas and away I was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timjim
I'm working on it, I'll even unclip the crotch flap so it swings
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Old 16 Mar 2008, 17:46   #10 (permalink)
Anton
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Default Re: Considering a small collection of Thousand Sons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal585
Well I know they are slow, resilient units that rely on magic and shooting. But I was just wondering how similar the game play is to Tau or Imperial Guard, with both of the above being shooting armies and bad in combat as well. And how useful is magic these days against armies such as Eldar who are psychically orientated to some degree? I think the magic is what really appeals to me, and denying those Necrons their armour saves. :P
The Chaos Psychic Powers are more geared towards an offensive style of play, nearly all of the psychic powers benefit the psyker only, whilst for example, Eldar psychic powers are geared towards helping the army as a whole. The Eldar are very good at negating enemy psykers, especially Farseers who have access to some frustratingly effective anti-psyker gear. However the Eldar Psychic powers aren't as lethal or aggressive as the Chaos ones, as I mentioned earlier the Eldar psychic powers are geared towards helping the army as a whole.

A Tzeentch based army will generally be shooty, however unlike the Tau or Imperial Guard who excel at long range shooting, a Tzeentch force excels at medium range shooting (the Thousand Sons are a shining example of this!) Tzeentch can also have access to some really powerful close combat units, Daemon Princes and Chaos Terminators to name a few. Whatever units you decide to take will dictate how your force works in a battle, however if you will be taking primarily Thousand Sons then you will find that they are perhaps the best medium range shooters in the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquisitor Sian Kytonus (Ged)
Anton,

Thanks for taking the time to help out Diabloelmo and Cal585 with this excellent advice. (The addition of all of those relevant links was also a nice touch!)

+1 Karma for your efforts to help out our newer Chaos Lords, Sorcerers, and Daemon Princes,
Ged
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