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Help on starting Thousand Sons
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Old 14 Mar 2008, 08:57   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Help on starting Thousand Sons

I'm thinking for my next project (since my loyalist army is nearly done) to do a Tzeentchian force. I'm not really that conversant with the new codex (or the old one for that matter!) so I'm really sure about points cost.
Composition-wise, I'm thinking of two squads of Rubric marines, a squad of raptors for some close combat punch, and perhaps a Predator or a Defiler, all led by a sorcerer.
Modeling-wise, I'm kinda taken with the idea of replacing the massive headresses with standard helmets, kinda downplaying the Egyptian theme a bit. to compensate, I'd instead make the sorcerers even more elaborate.

Any ideas?
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Old 14 Mar 2008, 10:07   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: Help on starting Thousand Sons

I would say that grabbing a box of the Chao Warriors would help, as their haeds and weapons are rather good for conversions of any kind with Chaos. Medieval helmets really give them that archaic look. Also if you want to make your lord elaborate, it really does help if you get the Chaos Terminator lord sprue, as it have alot of things that you ca use to make your normal Sorcerer Lord more interesting. IN addition, get yourself one of those Dark Angels Command Sprue, as they have so much things inside that can be used to make many sorcerers and even a sorcerer lord.

Get also the Possessed Sprue for the parts. They also provide two wings for your sorcerers if you want yours to have wings.

As for Composition-wise, I say that is a pretty solid list. Strap a Rhino on the Thousand Sons and apply all those Dumb rhino tactics and you will have a force to be reckoned with. But I prefer a Tzeentchian Daemon Prince as a result of it being a way more potent force upon the battlefield, but if you want a sorcerer it will be just fine.
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Old 14 Mar 2008, 13:11   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Help on starting Thousand Sons

Heh, for the head conversions I was actually going to use loyalist heads (of course with any obvious Imperial references filed off) for two reasons:
1) They have no mutant chaos symbolism (as should be expected from rubric marines)
2) I have several dozen of the damn things left over from my loyalist force!!!

I was going to get the terminator lord box anyway, simply because it looks awesome!
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Old 14 Mar 2008, 18:55   #4 (permalink)
Anton
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Default Re: Help on starting Thousand Sons

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Originally Posted by diabloelmo
I was going to get the terminator lord box anyway, simply because it looks awesome!
Good for you. But if you do get a Terminator Lord/Sorcerer, it may be a wise decision to attach him to a Terminator Squad. Terminators with the Icon of Tzeentch get a 4+ Invulnerable save! I would definitely recommend a unit of Terminators if you want a Terminator Lord.

I have little battlefield experience with the new Codex, however one word of advice would be to mount your Thousand Sons squads in Rhino's, without them your squads will be moving very slowly, unnecessarily giving your opponent time to pick apart your force in the shooting phase, or by coordinating assault units to take your Thousand Sons down. If you do decide to take Rhino's I would highly recommend Daemonic Possession, for only 5pts more than Extra Armour you can ignore both Shaken and Stunned results! Combined with Smoke Launchers, and you have one very resilient transport! However the Rhino's BS will be reduced by 1, but that means nothing for a Rhino as it has no weapons anyway! (Unless if you equip it with a Twin-Linked Bolter.) A Rhino with Daemonic Posssession is not only incredibly resilient, but can also provide you with many great conversion opportunities.

If you don't wish to take Rhino's, make sure you bulk up your Thousand Sons squads because they will take a beating. Generally speaking, the Thousand Sons are not very good in close combat and should be avoiding it at all costs, this is where you need a Combat support unit. Ideally, Deep Striking Terminators are the best, summoned in by an Aspiring Sorcerer's Personal Icon you can quickly support a Thousand Sons squad which is being assaulted with some hard hitting Terminators. If not, then a large squad of Summoned Lesser Daemons may prove to be a good Quick Sand/Speed Bump unit, locking fierce enemy assault troops in combat and preventing them from reaching your valuable Thousand Sons.

And finally what you need is a unit/character that can close with the enemy quickly, and remove troublesome units. This applies to both Rhino Rushing and Foot Slogging Thousand Sons armies. Ideally you'll want either Possessed Chaos Space Marines, who are already S5, fearless and sport a 5+ Inv. Save with the options of an Icon, some people may disagree due to the random nature of the Daemonkin chart, however I fully support and love the Possessed, they're my most favorite unit in the Codex! Secondly are Raptors, whom are now cheaper than before and have access to Champions with Twin-Lightning Claws, Special Weapons and of course Icons. Raptors are fast, efficient and good at whatever you need them to do. Finally is the Daemon Prince, perhaps the most well priced killer in the whole of the Codex. With already a very powerful statline the Daemon Prince can be marked, cannot be instantly killed and also be able to take perhaps the most detrimental upgrade, Wings. A Tzeentch Daemon Prince receives a 4+ Inv. Save and is able to purchase and use two Psychic Powers! How Insane! However expect this big guy to take an immense amount of enemy fire, as the psychological impact of seeing a big, intimidating Daemon Prince will have your opponent fretting!

Don't take my advice word for word, just take what units you like and experiment with them. I hope I've been of some help.
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 05:33   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Help on starting Thousand Sons

Quote:
Secondly are Raptors, whom are now cheaper than before and have access to Champions with Twin-Lightning Claws, Special Weapons and of course Icons. Raptors are fast, efficient and good at whatever you need them to do.
I was pretty much thinking of taking a unit of them already, it's nice to know that my less-than-informed choices seem to be good ones!
I originally wasn't going for Rhinos, but looking back at that choice it seems a little stupid, the whole 'slow and purposeful' rule making them just that....slow!
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 14:29   #6 (permalink)
Anton
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Default Re: Help on starting Thousand Sons

Quote:
Originally Posted by diabloelmo
I was pretty much thinking of taking a unit of them already, it's nice to know that my less-than-informed choices seem to be good ones!
I originally wasn't going for Rhinos, but looking back at that choice it seems a little stupid, the whole 'slow and purposeful' rule making them just that....slow!
In the long run you'll enjoy your games a hell of a lot more if you pick units you like.

Like I said, both Rhino Rushing and Foot Slogging are viable ways of playing a Thousand Sons Force. If you don't want Rhino's don't take them! Instead use those points to bulk up your squads so that they can weather the inevitable salvo of enemy fire that will be focused on them. Of course many will argue that the Thousand Sons lack of speed will make them useless as foot sloggers, which is true to some degree, however if you use your units cleverly and pick fast moving, hard hitting units (like Raptors) to support your Thousand Sons then I see no reason why you should take Rhino's.

If you dislike the slow nature of the Thousand Sons then take Rhino's. Rhino's have become a lot more useful in the new Chaos Codex (primarily with the removal of the Infiltrate skill which most CSM units had access to in the previous Codex,) and are great for ferrying around your valuable Chaos Space Marines. However the Rhino is incredibly weak, with a poor armour value they get picked off within the first or second turn, however we can now upgrade Rhino's to have Daemonic Possession! I adore this upgrade, not only does it give you a good excuse to convert a Daemonic Vehicle, but it's also so much better than Extra Armour. Coupled with Smoke Launchers the Rhino will become a very resilient Transport, and should be able to deliver your Troops safely.




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Old 16 Mar 2008, 06:53   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Help on starting Thousand Sons

Hmm. Well, Im probavly just going to start off at 500pts, and go from there. thanks for the input!
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Old 09 Apr 2008, 13:37   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Help on starting Thousand Sons

After much deliberation, I've decided on the following starting force:

Daemon Prince w/ mark of Tzeentch, wings, doombolt and warptime.

2x Rubric marine squad - sorcerer w/ bolt of change, 8 rubric marines

Defiler w/ heavy flamer and close combat weapon

Dreadnought w/ plasma cannon, heavy flamer and extra armour

The core of the force is the firebase of rubric marines, who will steadily advance whilst pouring fire into the enemy. The Daemon Prince will fly out and engage fast-moving close combat elements and enemy armour. The Defiler and Dreadnought are there to both add heavy fire support and add some close combat punch.

What does everyone think? I'm hoping to get a start within the next few months, and I'll be going to town on both the conversions and the paint scheme - which so far will be dark blue with ice blue 'marble' effect, with weathered gold trim.
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Old 09 Apr 2008, 14:36   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Help on starting Thousand Sons

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anton
If you do decide to take Rhino's I would highly recommend Daemonic Possession, for only 5pts more than Extra Armour you can ignore both Shaken and Stunned results!
Important to remember that although the vehicle ignore shaken and stunned results, the crew/passengers do not - they will be unable to dismount if stunned. Extra Armour will downgrade this to shaken, allowing a dismount. Personally I think both are largely unnecessary on a 35 point Rhino as long as you deploy wisely.

The only thing I might change in your 500 pt list is the heavy flamer on the Dread. As it's a ranged variant a twin-linked bolter might be more useful.
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Old 09 Apr 2008, 16:51   #10 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Help on starting Thousand Sons

I'd change the doombolt on the prince for something else, if he's got wings then he doesn't need the range a doombolt offers, the wind of chaos or gift of chaos are all nice alternatives, and on a daemin prince he can get close enough to utilise them. One thing you will have to do however is protect that prince as he will attract a lot of firepower.

Drop the bolts of change from your rubrics, unless your opponent deployed further back than normal you should be within range of something with your rubrics, and you don't want to waste those 200 something point marines so you can pop open a tank. Your invunerable saves should weather the worst of their heavy weapons, you will need to concentrate on reducing their weight of fire by using your AP 3 bolters to maximum effect. (this is also why I dislike rhino's as a turn in a rhino is a turn where the best half of your army isn't doing anything.)
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