Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Force Weapon query
Reply
Old 29 Feb 2008, 19:26   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,207
Default Force Weapon query

I've been thinking of making a Word Bearers army for some time now. One of my ideas (haven't been able to get my hands on the Codex) is a Sorcerer with Gift of Chaos and Warp Time, joining a unit of Raptors. When I did abit of playtesting I was astonished how often a Sorcerer with Warp Time could gib-splat big nastites like Carnifexes. But, I ran into abit of a problem when I read the Force Weapon description.

It says something like "counts as a psychic power.....may not use any psychic powers in the same turn". Is that last one BECAUSE it counts as a psychic power, or a blanket ban? Ie: could a Sorcerer with the Mark of Tzeentch or a Familiar use Warp Time and still get the benefit of the Force Weapon?

While I'm here I may as well ask a few other general questions. I'm struggling for a place to put my Dark Apostle. I was thinking whacking him in with a unit of Terminators to provide some CC support (Daemon Weapon), but the general opinion seems to be that Lords in Terminator army aren't worth it. Problem is, I just don't know where else he would be useful.

The only other idea I've got so far is using a big unit of Nurgle-Marked Chosen with an Icon to infiltrate into cover and provide a platform for all my demons to come into play. Or for the previously mentioned unit of Terminators to deep strike to.

Thanks for your time.
__________________


There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty.
- Inquisitor Lord Karamazov

What do you humans know of our pain? We have sang songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea - Eldrad Ulthran
Faolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 29 Feb 2008, 20:35   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: southampton
Posts: 140
Send a message via MSN to Abaddon the despoiler
Default Re: Force Weapon query

Well if you have the mark of Tzeentch yes you can use warptime, and still use the force weapon rule any other mark you have will not allow you to do this, as for the Familiar it only allows you to have more then one psychic power hope i have been of some help.
Abaddon the despoiler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 Mar 2008, 00:10   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 53
Default Re: Force Weapon query

yeah im pretty sure force weapon counts as using a psychic power, so get mark of tzeentch if you want warptime in the same turn.

edit: when i thought about this, i don't think MoT allows you to use 2 powers, you just may take 2.
not 100% though, im not too familiar with psychers.
LUSK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 Mar 2008, 03:17   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 542
Default Re: Force Weapon query

It is as Abaddon says:

The only way you can use Warp Time and your Force Weapon in the same turn is with MoT. MoT allows you to take an additional psychic power AND to use two psychic powers per turn.

A familiar only grants you an additional psychic power, NOT the ability to use more than one psychic power per turn.

As the rules say, the use of a force weapon's psychic kill only counts as the use of a psychic power for the purpose of limiting the amount of psychic powers you can use per turn. However, the force weapon does not count as a psychic power for the purpose of the number of psychic powers you can take; it is simply the standard piece of wargear. In other words, it is superfluous to take a familiar when you only have warptime and a force weapon.

As to your other question...

I don't think there's anything wrong with taking a lord in terminator armour. If you want to talk about effectiveness for points cost, then I'd say the daemon weapons are the greater weakness, especially when you add the cost of the marks onto the lord in order to access the special daemon weapons. Lightning claws with MoK are probably a more cost-effective selection. But if you want to use daemon weapons to represent the dark crozius (or whatever it's called), the unmarked version is almost as good as the MoK Lord with Lightning Claws, I think.

As for delivering the termies and daemons, I think you go for two squads of chosen, probably at max numbers (10), or else via raptors. Obviously chosen are more fluffy for the word bearers, but I've come to believe they are too vulnerable infiltrating alone; so go for two squads or none at all.
Chimerical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 Mar 2008, 05:23   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,207
Default Re: Force Weapon query

Thanks for your answers everyone. Good to know the Sorcerer dosen't have to choose between his unique job and his unique weapon.

But if you want to use daemon weapons to represent the dark crozius (or whatever it's called), the unmarked version is almost as good as the MoK Lord with Lightning Claws, I think.

Therein lies a problem.......you see, the only thing the Accursed Crozius actually did in the old rules was provide a 4+ Invulnerable save. Which means, if I want to stay in keeping with the fluff, I need a Mark of Tzeentch to represent that. That reminds me. I know taking a Mark upgrades a Daemon Weapon to a god-specific one. But does it HAVE to? Can I have the MOT and a vanilla demon weapon?

So would you say a Lord with Terminator Armour, MOT, and a Daemon Weapon (whichever) could be points effective?
__________________


There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty.
- Inquisitor Lord Karamazov

What do you humans know of our pain? We have sang songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea - Eldrad Ulthran
Faolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 Mar 2008, 07:07   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 542
Default Re: Force Weapon query

You have to take the daemon weapon that matches your mark.

I don't think it is logical that you must take MoT to represent the accursed crozius. The new codex represents a kind of starting over. Just like in the previous codex where we could try to use the best units rules-wise and while perhaps limiting ourselves to the given fluffy units and gear (which may have included using an accursed crozius), so in the new codex we should do the same. The most notable feature of our new codex is its vanillarization - it's up to you to give the personality to your army. Since there is no accursed crozius in the new codex, it's like the old rules never existed. The old rule only existed in the context of the old codex. My advice would be not to feel that you need to hamper yourself to approximate the rule/fluff of the old codex. Do what you think best represents your idea of the accursed crozius because you are free to.

If I were thinking of making an army of Word Bearers with a Dark Apostle, I think I'd use some model that would 'count as' Fabius Bile. I think his genetic mutation rule is what best approximates the idea of a chaplain of chaos, because it is about affecting (inspiring?) the rest of your army. Why would the only special rule of a chaos chaplain be that he gives himself a 4+ invulnerable? That seems silly to me.

Got off track there. Sorry.
Chimerical is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01 Mar 2008, 09:39   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 2,207
Default Re: Force Weapon query

Sorry, I should have made myself clearer.

I want to represent something as close as possible to the old rules. Therefore, I want to take a MOT and an undivided demon weapon. That's what I think fits best. However, as that is impossible I'll have to think of something else.

As for the 4+ save, the Crozius was actually an Icon as well, but I didn't mention that. Still, it looks like I'll have to lose that plan for the Greater G....I mean, glory of Chaos.

So, my choices now are a vanilla demon weapon, or MOT and a Deathscreamer. Either can be good. I was under the impression Fabilus Bile wasn't legal anymore. If I'm wrong, he'd be a good idea to consider as well.
__________________


There is no such thing as a plea of innocence in my court. A plea of innocence is guilty of wasting my time. Guilty.
- Inquisitor Lord Karamazov

What do you humans know of our pain? We have sang songs of lament since before your ancestors crawled on their bellies from the sea - Eldrad Ulthran
Faolin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03 Mar 2008, 15:08   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1,106
Default Re: Force Weapon query

Quote:
Originally Posted by Faolin
So, my choices now are a vanilla demon weapon, or MOT and a Deathscreamer. Either can be good. I was under the impression Fabilus Bile wasn't legal anymore. If I'm wrong, he'd be a good idea to consider as well.
All of the special characters (including Fabius Bile) are detailed in the new Chaos Codex, right before the HQ section of the army list.
__________________
IcyCool is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Warboss: Mega Armor and Kombi-Weapon Query Zen Orks 5 11 Apr 2009 02:44
the force is with you...in your weapon that is ie force weapon jacktheodd General 40K 2 10 Oct 2007 19:54
Query on the force weapon Jeff Forces of Chaos 2 29 Sep 2007 12:50
force weapon §fallen§ Space Marines 5 24 Aug 2007 00:20
Force weapon Chton Space Marines 12 18 Jun 2005 18:51