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what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)
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Old 20 Feb 2008, 09:03   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)

I looked at my marines today.

Each one of them had died in droves, in the name of the blood god. I have taken grey knight masters, space marine lords, and as many guardsmen to boot. Yet something is unfulfilled.

freedom of chaotic influence post heresy.

We find that some of us would love to take whirlwinds, or other big tanks (we just got the vindicator now) but why do we go against it? because it isn't available to chaos? all new vehicles are post heresy?

if thats so..

Why not take into consideration of a new chapter consumed by chaos, or a matter of fact a manipulator of chaos for their own good.

With my khorne berserker's I am imagining horn mutations, their symbols mark their hatred to the deity, or they hang it in shame of their past. Their bolt pistols can easily be manipulated to true grit, and their furious charge, can now be furious assault (same cost, but 1 less attack I believe)

if it wasn't just the marines


The customization of the space marines, with the traitors of the imperial guard, and inquisition (radical daemon hunter, inquisitors etc..sisters of battle gone wrong.) always make a competitive competition for diversity in an army.

All in a obtainable fashion.

So as I vent some unresolved issues, I will be delving at the angle of using chaos marines in my banner of warp bound survivors, trying to make it out.

I must have gotten the influence mainly due in part to the trial rules for the lost chapters.



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Old 20 Feb 2008, 16:55   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)

I have no idea what you are trying to say. This post's incoherency is actually vaguely impressive.
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Old 21 Feb 2008, 12:14   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)

Yes, must be the nostalgia... and some psychoactive drugs of some variety.

But if I understand the gist of your post, you're lamenting that we, what, can't make up our own rules? Can't take any unit from any codex we want? Because abiding by codex limitations isn't 'chaotic'? I somehow doubt your opponents would share your enthusiasm for such a notion.
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Old 21 Feb 2008, 19:39   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)

I mean reinvent the chaos space marines, back into the trait system.

Reproducing khorne berserker's with perhaps the following.

True grit (yeah, im smoking something)
Furious assault

or just using khorne berserker's, in space marine veteran slots. They have the bolt pistol/ccw slot, toss on furious "assault" and you'll nearly get the full kick of a khorne berserker minus the fearless part.

(this is actually debatable in the matter of if world eaters were actually totally fearless. The kharn the betrayer description put in gung ho lads, but some admitted signs of fear. But hey kharn being scary to high hell is possible.)

This way, if you wanted to. You could use a chaotic convert, and have customizable ranges of radical daemon hunters (-grey knights) or some weird version of a sisters of battle chaos convent.

or at the very least expand on the derivatives of the 13th company, and bring in the lost chapter trial rules (Understands where fabius bile got his rules from)

The idea of mutation, but fighting for own personal cause, not evil, not good.

but then again I am ranting.

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Old 22 Feb 2008, 00:32   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)

The solution is simple. I used to think the same thing, that chaos needed Traitor Guard and other Imperial Armies, but really...the solution was so simple that I couldn't beleive I didn't think of it earlier.

Simply buy the codex, and play that army but model it so it looks like chaos. It's the most effective way you can acheive what I think your trying to describe. Theres no need to try and make Chaos army lists for every Loyalist codex out there. The only thing the Chaos codex gives you is specific God benefits and limited access to what the Imperials have.

Hell, if you wanted to make an effective all daemon army (for example), don't use the Chaos codex, don't use any other imperial codex. Just simply use the Tyranid codex and model and convert accordingly. Inform your opponent what counts as what and there should be no problem.

It's not a matter of knocking on GW door and demanding more codecii, it's a matter of being smart and creative.
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Old 22 Feb 2008, 01:00   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)

If you wanted to make an all deamon army, you could just use the all demon codex that's on its way.
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Old 22 Feb 2008, 02:11   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)

Personally, I don't think it could portray the deamons as much as the Tyranid codex could. Just as in the playing style and unit selections. but that remains to be seen, seeing as the daemon codex isn't out yet :
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Originally Posted by Bubgum
Well, I dont just have a firewall, i have a warpwall, yep, anything bad in my internet connection that touches my warpwall is banished to the warp for eternity.
"Strive For Perfection
And Strike With Precision
Soon It Blows Up In Your Face
And The Smoke Blurs Your Vision"
-Mushroomhead

Formerly Andrew "Ender" Wiggen.
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Old 22 Feb 2008, 02:28   #8 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)

I really wanted to play with the idea of a chaotic army (or a chaosish type army) that incorporated rogue elements of the inquisition (inquisitors with inducted imperial guard? hell DAEMON hosts would be awesome, imagine a sisters of battle chaos coven? hell even bring in chaotic versions of the assassins.

Why not have what they tried doing, using the lost chapters. Incorporating specific armies with their mutations. Like fire sprouting from them, or like the space wolves, make them more wolverine like.

and to think, a new chapter converting to chaos, may have its whirlwinds, its landraiders, its speeders.

yet theres nothing to represent that...

since they changed the codex

are chaos marines, really any different then any other marines?


or maybe im thinking like this

Tier 1 normal space marines
Tier 2 Normal/warp marines- a middle ground
Tier 3 chaos marines
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Old 22 Feb 2008, 08:31   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)

The reason Chaos doesn't have the options that Imperials do, such as Whirlwinds and Land Speeders, is because all Chaos is dated back to the heresy. They have lived 10,000 years, still fight in legions rather then chapters. A legion is 10,000 marines, so they usually have some pretty big armies. But since they date back to the heresy, they don't have the new technology that the Imperials do. What makes them "equal" (in my eyes at least) is that since they have lived through 10,000 years of war, they have gained more experience then any loyalist Space Marine, who usually lives to be around 300 or so (last I heard any way). Not only that but they have the 4 Chaos Gods backing them as well.

In the end I feel its worth it really. You lose some tech, but you gain all kinds of mutations, abilities, and my personal favourite - Deamon Weapons It all balance's out in the end, and makes for a better, more flavourfull army in my opinion.
I may be rambling right now and I'm sorry. Just got home from the bar :
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubgum
Well, I dont just have a firewall, i have a warpwall, yep, anything bad in my internet connection that touches my warpwall is banished to the warp for eternity.
"Strive For Perfection
And Strike With Precision
Soon It Blows Up In Your Face
And The Smoke Blurs Your Vision"
-Mushroomhead

Formerly Andrew "Ender" Wiggen.
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Old 22 Feb 2008, 12:27   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: what the chao space marine codex needed :( (could be nostalgia here)

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Snow
The reason Chaos doesn't have the options that Imperials do, such as Whirlwinds and Land Speeders, is because all Chaos is dated back to the heresy. They have lived 10,000 years, still fight in legions rather then chapters. A legion is 10,000 marines, so they usually have some pretty big armies. But since they date back to the heresy, they don't have the new technology that the Imperials do. What makes them "equal" (in my eyes at least) is that since they have lived through 10,000 years of war, they have gained more experience then any loyalist Space Marine, who usually lives to be around 300 or so (last I heard any way). Not only that but they have the 4 Chaos Gods backing them as well.

In the end I feel its worth it really. You lose some tech, but you gain all kinds of mutations, abilities, and my personal favourite - Deamon Weapons It all balance's out in the end, and makes for a better, more flavourfull army in my opinion.
I may be rambling right now and I'm sorry. Just got home from the bar :
I can appreciate the balance, but I just don't see that the fluff in the current codex backs that up. It all points to even the first founding Chaos legions swelling their ranks or replacing their losses from recent space marines who have turned renegade. At least that is what I thought after reading the latest codex. Those guys just left their equipment? I agree it would make Chaos overpowered, but I think the reasoning should just end there.
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