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Upcoming battle tactical advice sought
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Old 15 Feb 2008, 00:42   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 999
Default Upcoming battle tactical advice sought

Well, I haven't played my Chaos for awhile and a friend wants a friendly against them ...
He is going DH


HQ:
Grand Master Holocaust; Teleport Homer; Terminator Armour
3 Grey Knight Terminator Retinue Psycannon (x1)

Elite:
3 Grey Knight Terminators Incinerator (x1)
Brother-Captain Teleport Homer;

Troops:
9 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Hellgun (x7); Flamer (x1); Grenade Launcher (x1); Targeter
Veteran Stormtrooper Power Weapon (x1); Teleport Homer
1 Chimera
Multilaser; Heavy Bolter; Dozer Blade; Extra Armor; Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter

5 Grey Knights Psycannon (x1)
1 Grey Knight Justicar Teleport Homer

Fast Attack:
5 Grey Knights Incinerator (x1)
1 Grey Knight Justicar Teleport Homer

Heavy Support:
Dreadnought Missile Launcher; Twin Linked Lascannon
Heavy Support:
Dreadnought Missile Launcher; Twin Linked Lascannon

I'm planning to play this list
HQ:
Chaos Lord Daemon Weapon; Plasma Pistol; Fearless; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack
Fabius Bile

Elite:
4 Chosen
Bolt Pistol (x4); Bolter (x1); Close Combat Weapon (x2); Plasmagun (x2); Power Weapon (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Infiltrate
Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol (x1); Close Combat Weapon (x1);

Troops:
8 Chaos Space Marines
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Meltagun (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Chaos Glory; Enhanced Warriors
Aspiring Champion Plasma Pistol; Power Fist; Bolter; Enhanced Warriors
1 Rhino Twin Linked Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers

2x 8 Khorne Berzerkers
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Furious Charge; Mark of Khorne

12 Summoned Lesser Daemon

Fast Attack:
7 Raptors Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Plasma Pistol (x1); Meltagun (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
Aspiring Champion Lightning Claws (pair)

and for fun
2 Spawn

Both lists are just over 1500 points. Normally I would play my DW/RW or WH against him. However a bunch of zealots, PEs, seraphim and assassins might not cut it against that list
and we do want a good game. Haven't used Bile in some time and this list doesn't take full advantage of him with Zerker troops but we will see.
Any tactical advice welcome and I'll report results on Monday if I get a chance.
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Old 15 Feb 2008, 23:43   #2 (permalink)
AC
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Scotland
Posts: 751
Default Re: Upcoming battle tactical advice sought

Quote:
HQ:
Chaos Lord Daemon Weapon; Plasma Pistol; Fearless; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Jump Pack
Good choice but infiltrate is useless since you want to put him with the raptors.

Quote:
Fabius Bile
Meh :-\ he's ok I suppose.

Quote:
Elite:
4 Chosen
Bolt Pistol (x4); Bolter (x1); Close Combat Weapon (x2); Plasmagun (x2); Power Weapon (x2); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Infiltrate
Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol (x1); Close Combat Weapon (x1);
This is a good choice but the Aspiring champion should have a power weapon.

Quote:
Troops:
8 Chaos Space Marines
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Bolter; Meltagun (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Chaos Glory; Enhanced Warriors
Aspiring Champion Plasma Pistol; Power Fist; Bolter; Enhanced Warriors
1 Rhino Twin Linked Bolter; Searchlight; Smoke Launchers
Nice choice but the searchlight isn't needed.

Quote:
2x 8 Khorne Berzerkers
Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Fearless; Furious Charge; Mark of Khorne
SWEET ;D but they may have some troubles because the Grey Knights rules against demons.

Quote:
12 Summoned Lesser Daemon
See above.

Quote:
Fast Attack:
7 Raptors Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon; Plasma Pistol (x1); Meltagun (x1); Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades
Aspiring Champion Lightning Claws (pair)
Work as the perfect bodyguard for your commander.

Quote:
and for fun
2 Spawn
Little you can do with these than tie up any units.

Now his team:

Quote:
HQ:
Grand Master Holocaust; Teleport Homer; Terminator Armour
3 Grey Knight Terminator Retinue Psycannon (x1)
Psycannon is kind of useless against you since you are mainly 3+ saves. Hit these with your Bezerkers.

Quote:
Elite:
3 Grey Knight Terminators Incinerator (x1)
Brother-Captain Teleport Homer;
See above.

Quote:
Troops:
9 Inquisitorial Stormtroopers
Frag Grenades; Krak Grenades; Hellgun (x7); Flamer (x1); Grenade Launcher (x1); Targeter
Veteran Stormtrooper Power Weapon (x1); Teleport Homer
1 Chimera
Multilaser; Heavy Bolter; Dozer Blade; Extra Armor; Pintle-mounted Storm Bolter
Damn, you're lucky. Except for the power weapon, these guys suck against you. Send your marines in and slaughter them in combat or pop a melta shot into the chimera and watch it burn. ;D

Quote:
5 Grey Knights Psycannon (x1)
1 Grey Knight Justicar Teleport Homer
Strong hits but only one power weapon. Spawn can hold them up & plasma can drop their numbers.

Quote:
Fast Attack:
5 Grey Knights Incinerator (x1)
1 Grey Knight Justicar Teleport Homer
See above.

Quote:
Heavy Support:
Dreadnought Missile Launcher; Twin Linked Lascannon
Heavy Support:
Dreadnought Missile Launcher; Twin Linked Lascannon
Let me get this straight. He has two anti-tank dreadnought when you only have a rhino ???. Damn, he's got a brain of cheese. Just keep your HQ's in squads & your chosen in cover & you should be ok.

Tactics ..... I think you should deep strike your HQ & raptors near his terminators, Infiltrate your chosen into cover and work up to the terminators, get your marines into combat with the storm troopers, or if they're in the chimera, pop a melta shot in, make sure you swarm his units with the bezerkers & use the spawn as a meat shield. Just make sure that if you face his terminators with power weapons & keep moving into cover until the last minute, you sould be ok. Also, if he deep strike his terminators, keep your chosen or a squad of bezerkers near by your marines.

This is just my two cents though.
__________________
Exitus Acta Probat "the Outcome justifies the Deed"
- Vindicare Assassin Temple Motto

There are three things that matter in marksmanship. Location, Location, Location - Vindicare Assassin Training Dogma.

I do not know what World War Three will be fought with, but I know that World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones - Albert Einstein

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Old 16 Feb 2008, 14:02   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 999
Default Re: Upcoming battle tactical advice sought

My friend really doesn't have a brin f cheese, lol. It's just that I saw his list first and decided that tanks might not be so good. I did want to keep it fair though - no cheese on my part - as it is a friendly. Good advice there and I'll see how that works.
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Old 17 Feb 2008, 10:27   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Our Kansas... get it?
Posts: 247
Default Re: Upcoming battle tactical advice sought

Fabius Bile - you get +1 cool points in my book for taking a character to a friendly game, should add quite a bit to the atmosphere of the game I bet. The list looks pretty good to me, I favor speed and the jump packed Lord w/raptors looks great to me.
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Old 17 Feb 2008, 14:45   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 999
Default Re: Upcoming battle tactical advice sought

Actually I was playing a Bile list but modified it for the friendly

HQ
Bile 160

Elite
5 Terms=215
2 chainfists, reaper cannon, and Mark of Undivided

Troops
9 Mutated Marines w/champ, fist, 2 melta and rhino
9 Mutated Marines w/champ, fist, 2 melta and rhino
9 Mutated Marines w/champ, fist, 2 melta and rhino
9 Mutated Marines w/champ, fist, 2 melta and rhino

Hvy
Pred w/ Las and HB

It is about the same amount of points ( slightly less actually ) with a ton of firepower but I decided it was too cookie cutter - don't underestimate rhino charges with the enhanced CSM. But it is not as much fun as the list I'll ber playing ( in about one hour, BTW ).

Bile though disliked by many can be quite useful. He will survive a lot of battles taking out lower armoured adversaries with ease. He struggles against the big guys but he is an interesting choice non-the-less. You are guaranteed at least the strength bonus now and if you overload on troops ypu will get some great charges out of some squads. Yep, 1/6 you will lose a guy and if you lose a fight you're in trouble but you need to keep Bile somewhat balanced.

The new codex says chosen, troops, bikers, raptors and havocs are all CSM but until I see a ruling or faq I'm going to assume only troops can be enhanced. Pg. 26 and pg 53 can be interpreted in different ways and I think the intent is troops only with Bile.
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Old 17 Feb 2008, 19:50   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 999
Default Re: Upcoming battle tactical advice sought

Well the battle is over and Chaos got whipped. It was a Gamma "Seek and Destroy".

The real problem I had was with the terrain. The DH were able to set up on one flank and wait for me to come to them. I deployed behind cover to avoid a few early casualties and made the mistake of opting to DS my Raptors and Lord. In hindsight I definitely should have flown them across the table and picked out my targets better.
Turn 1
DH manage to take out three berserkers with the dreads and I try to move into position. He has three squads in reserve ( HQ, gkt's and fast attack gk's).
Turn 2
GKT's and Grandmaster DS in, but well back to only get some Psycannon shots
GK's attempt to DS on top of a hill to get some shots, but scatter back
He puts a couple of wounds on my advancing Spawn ( throughout the first three turns they soak up firepower until he gets smart and ignores them).
Meat shield (ala lesser daemons modeled as old latd mutants) deep strike forward in front of berserkers
My chosen lose a member to gets hot ( throughout the game the dice desert me - truly). However they manage to take out a dread with the PF.
Turn 3
GKT's DS nice and close to daemons
FAGK's get position on top of the hill and get a couple shots off (nothing effective)
Two more berserkers down, but he can't seem to hit with his ML
The Daemons got Incinerated and SB'd down to 4 from the fresh GKT
The GKT's with hero get vengence on the Chosen and wipe them out with shooting and assault,
Then I DS the Raptors behind lines, preparing for some nasty shooting. They were very close to taking out the GKHQ, with only one wound remaining on the GK grandmaster
The GK's on the hill? Slaughtered in shooting by everything else firing in my army

Well, here's where I thought things were looking good...not so! The worm turns...

Turn 4
I knew my raptors were a bit exposed, but I hoped I could make at least a few saves and tie up some troops until the rest of my army arrived.
DH unlease their firepower, shooting up my raptors and champion with shots from a Chimaera, Dreadnaught, GK's, Storm trooper grenade launcher an incinerator, and finally lots of storm bolters. After the dust settled, the champion and an aspiring champion were all that remained!
Assault. He is able to setup the assault so his GM is in btb with the Chaos Lord, the other GKT's in btb with the AC and his GK's split between the two.
The champion rolls a 6! for the daemon weapon giving him a very impressive 9 attacks, which were split 4/5 on the GM/GK's respectively. With all of those rolls, his lucky GM makes three invulnerable saves, and killing only 2 GK, before taking 2 wounds back and falling to the force weapon (I don't like force weapons, unless they are mine). The AC with lighting claws go after the GKT's, but gets no hits ( :sadnshocked. He falls to the GKT's...

Well, the rest was mop-up. The DH were able to move back and shoot, with range greater than my effective range. The terrain was setup so I needed to do a pincer maneuver to catch them, but I never did.

After thoughts
Spawn are great for soaking up firepower
Lesser daemons proved lesser, although 4 managed to take out a gkt (not mentioned above)
NEVER EVER DS Raptors + Lord with Flight! They'd have owned the table if allowed to pick and choose their targets and they are not hung out to dry in the open (one of the other AC's not in the game must have fed them bad coordinates - I think he might be the new lord...)

Finally...

Great game, good fun! And Chris *finally* was able to claim his first (and only ;D ) decisive victory. I'll have to remind him how my Deathwing assault-cannoned his army of Genestealers to death to keep him humble now. I'm really liking those DH (which I gave to Chris, lol - might have to get them back from him...)
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Old 18 Feb 2008, 22:02   #7 (permalink)
AC
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Posts: 751
Default Re: Upcoming battle tactical advice sought

oops :-[ sorry about that bad advice. When I played a guy with a lord with wings in a squad of raptors, it took out 53 kroot before being destroyed .
__________________
Exitus Acta Probat "the Outcome justifies the Deed"
- Vindicare Assassin Temple Motto

There are three things that matter in marksmanship. Location, Location, Location - Vindicare Assassin Training Dogma.

I do not know what World War Three will be fought with, but I know that World War Four will be fought with sticks and stones - Albert Einstein

Semper Fi
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Old 18 Feb 2008, 23:30   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: toronto
Posts: 999
Default Re: Upcoming battle tactical advice sought

Quote:
oops :-[ sorry about that bad advice. When I played a guy with a lord with wings in a squad of raptors, it took out 53 kroot before being destroyed .
Oh, it's my fault entirely - just one tactical error swings the whole game though against a veteran. I could have played them anyway I chose ... I have enough experience. Chris also is a a very strong player in his defense. I think I got very lazy playing Deathwing where they survived withering fire at times and with the new chaos codex I'm pretty much a noob still. I f I play orks I play Nobs. Raptprs although CSM cannot take as much punishment. They did take out almost the whole HQ before falling and the game was not a massacre.
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Old 19 Feb 2008, 15:49   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Upcoming battle tactical advice sought

Sounds like a brutal game. Quick question though, how can the Lord deepstrike together with the raptors? They are two separate units on the force org chart, so they need to make separate reserves rolls, and they deepstrike seperately. Since there is no such thing as a retinue for the chaos characters anymore, I didn't think such a thing was possible.
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Old 19 Feb 2008, 18:54   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Upcoming battle tactical advice sought



Quote:
Quick question though, how can the Lord deepstrike together with the raptors? They are two separate units on the force org chart, so they need to make separate reserves rolls, and they deepstrike seperately.
I did roll separately ... they just came in at the same time in the same area. Too bad really. Had I rolled in the lord first I would not have moved him as far forward and then the game might have gone better for me.

Quote:
Sounds like a brutal game.
Actually, as i said, it was a lot of fun with lots of tactics, shooting and melee - what more can you hope for in a casual game?
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