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Hammered by Death Co army
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Old 29 Jan 2008, 22:29   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Hammered by Death Co army

...had a Death Co, Mephiston, and Sanguinus all in 1500 pts. I just couldn't shoot it down with my Word Bearers, and the Dark Apostle (Sorcerer) is waaaay underpowered compared to their heroes. Cheesy army, but legal/ Any ideas on how to fight it with Chaos?
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Old 29 Jan 2008, 23:12   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Hammered by Death Co army

Bait and switch...

throw a sacrificial lamb squad in front of a power weapon toting chosen squad, berzerker squad, or anything with power weapons.

then charge next turn.

Feel no pain is annoying, but power weapons negate that. If you charge them they are like marines in all sense, but if you attack them by normal means they will simply say FAILZ and rend you
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Old 30 Jan 2008, 00:27   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Hammered by Death Co army

one shot with a vindicator kills them all. mephiston doesnt get his feel no pain and has no inv save so dies, as to the other death company. otherwise they can be hard to deal with.
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Old 30 Jan 2008, 19:29   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Hammered by Death Co army

Obliterators firing plasma cannons do a decent job of it. Vindicators, Defilers, just about any pie plate will do ya. Lash really fixes things up, and conveniently enough so does a charge from an I6 unit.

If you get stuck trying to play them at the assault marine game, you want to take their charge on either Ksons or Plague Marines and then return the favor with some berserkers or noise marines. If you can keep enough bodies standing for power fists to swing/warptime sorcerers to swing they fall down like anyone else.
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Old 30 Jan 2008, 22:57   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Hammered by Death Co army

smart players tend to spread out the death company inlieu of pie plates...I know I thought battle cannons would do it
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Old 31 Jan 2008, 07:26   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Hammered by Death Co army

Quote:
Originally Posted by freecloud
...had a Death Co, Mephiston, and Sanguinus all in 1500 pts. I just couldn't shoot it down with my Word Bearers, and the Dark Apostle (Sorcerer) is waaaay underpowered compared to their heroes. Cheesy army, but legal/ Any ideas on how to fight it with Chaos?

a few things.....

1) if he's using sanguinis - there's no point putting your models on the table. i dont think you have a chance against a primarch :P

2) mephiston, i aggree is pretty mean. but then abbadon is mean and he has an inv save .

3) i fail to see how MY CURRENT ARMY is cheezy just becuase you cant beat it. plenty of people have defeated blood angels in the past, maybe you should learn from them.



mini-rant over, onto advising.


what are you using in your list? if you have ANYTHING with I4 or higher with a power weapon then CHARGE THE DEATH COMPANY!!! remember that the DC are effectively 35pts each now so each wound does hurt them quite a bit.

or you can try holding them up, DO NOT use plague marines (a few lucky rending rolls will end their day in short order) but guys like 1ksons and lesser deamons can hold them up for turns upon turns.

have you tried running the chosen squad with 5 meltas (i would certainly not risk going near them with my DC )

or even, do you use abbadon? he can fairly easily smash the face of most of a squad of death comany on his own - even if they charge HIM (let alone if he has a slannesh terminator bodyguard )


or the easy route is 3 defilers, battle cannon them and then charge (hope for no rending )


without seeing your list i cant advise you properly
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Old 01 Feb 2008, 17:45   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Hammered by Death Co army

"smart players tend to spread out the death company inlieu of pie plates...I know I thought battle cannons would do it"

Don't let them spread out, just lash them into pie plate formation and drop pie plates on them. This has the side benefit of moving them backwards, farther from assault range.

Presuming you can get LOS to them with one lasher and two battle cannons.

11/12 that the Lash goes off, call it another 11/12 that you get at least the 4 inches you need to really group them up.

5/9 that one of your pie plates is a direct hit. In truth, presuming a ten man death co with one IC stuck on, a one inch scatter is functionally identical to a direct hit. A 2 inch scatter ought to produce decent results. If we call a 2 inch scatter acceptable the odds of getting at least one acceptable result rise to...what, 65/81, presuming you are firing directly and didn't move the Vindicators/Defilers.

So the tactic of lash, pie plate, pie plate has a roughly 2 out of 3 success rate, and since the lash pushes them back you probably have the opportunity to repeat it. The enemy will most likely have a Death Co member and the IC left after this. I recommend lascannon shots from your Obliterators for the finish, but its fairly academic, as all of your units have enough CC prowess to take a charge from one Death Co guy and a chaplain.

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Old 01 Feb 2008, 23:52   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Hammered by Death Co army

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Magnifico
3) i fail to see how MY CURRENT ARMY is cheezy just becuase you cant beat it. plenty of people have defeated blood angels in the past, maybe you should learn from them.
True, they have, I just don't know how - but I do think DA + Sanguinus + Mephiston in 1500 pts is taking the piss

My army is fairly simple, still tweaking it:

Chaos Sorcerer
5 Chaos Terminators
6 Chosen, 2 melta, 1 plasma
2 x 8 CSM, Plasma
2 x 5 Raptors, 2 x plasma pistols
2 x 2 Obliterators
1 Defiiler

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Old 09 Feb 2008, 11:32   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Hammered by Death Co army

I didn't think primmarchs fit in under 1500pts....oh well

warptime prince tag teams work well, one prince with warptime will soften them up but yeah he will go down pretty quickly.

From your post I'de say that the BA player has a maxs death company and min on other stuff, so most likly he takes assault tropps with his remaining points. (Correct me if I'm wrong) Are they also a problem for you, like if you focus so much on his death company then the rest of his army gets off scott free, or are you focussing too much on his army then the DC hit you?

Assault marines aren't all that crash hot, its only the vet sarge oyu have to worry about, and if taken in max squads then they are pricey as hell (can be combat squaded but meh) % assault marines are just as easy to take down as 5 foot marines, they can just get into combat faster. What I'm saying is, if you focus on his army, then don't, they wont hit as hard as the DC, so take them out first, prince tag team, lash pies, oblit plasma death, abby and typhus with a bodyguard of termies would probs mess them up pretty bad as well.
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Old 07 Mar 2008, 09:56   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Hammered by Death Co army

Quote:
Originally Posted by freecloud
Quote:
Originally Posted by El Magnifico
3) i fail to see how MY CURRENT ARMY is cheezy just becuase you cant beat it. plenty of people have defeated blood angels in the past, maybe you should learn from them.
True, they have, I just don't know how - but I do think DA + Sanguinus + Mephiston in 1500 pts is taking the Aulma

My army is fairly simple, still tweaking it:

Chaos Sorcerer
5 Chaos Terminators
6 Chosen, 2 melta, 1 plasma
2 x 8 CSM, Plasma
2 x 5 Raptors, 2 x plasma pistols
2 x 2 Obliterators
1 Defiiler
now i'm assuming you mean DANTE (the chapter master) and not SANGUINIS (the primarch)


dante is pretty harsh, but he is very expensive, as is mephiston.


with those 2 guys running around, his death company cant have a chaplain to guide them - thus they MUST move as fast as possible to the nearest enemy unit every turn. you can use that to your advantage, lure them out with your raptors (staying out of charge range) and start laying the AP3/2 on them - i'd say starting with the battle cannon.

my chaos knowledge is sketchy at best, but chosen infiltrate now i believe. if so - DONT INFILTRATE!!!. deploy in you normal deployment zone somewhere, this will mean he cant focus his army to taking out your chosen in the first turn and they have a good chance of dropping a few guys themselves.

if your sorceror has the mark of slannesh - he is striking at the same time as mephiston, and BEFORE dante. with that knowledge and you will see mephiston explode very quickly if you can land a wound on him without using any powers beforehand (though you will very possibly lose your sorcerer in the exchange).

or if you feel lucky, try gift of chaos. on a 6 mephiston becomes a spawn
(5+ for dante )


looking at your list, i would assume that your problem is armour. against things like Baal preds, your squads are going to get thinned very quickly and you only have 2 weapons that a baal is going to fear (the obliterators).


just remember that those 2 characters alone come to nearly 500pts, possibly more. they are not THAT hard for their points cost.

abbadon has trumped every character barring 3 (geared up hive tyrant with 3 guard, =]I[= lord cotaez with full retinue and a GK Grand Master) that i have paired him against - i would advise any powerhouse chaos army to include him (especially if you want your opponent to have the same woes you are having now
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