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Dath Path : Tzeentch Forces Overview
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 08:49   #1 (permalink)
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Default Dath Path : Tzeentch Forces Overview

It has been a long time since the Nurgle Forces Overview, but now the next installment in the series of four returns and it focuses upon the forces of th God of Sorcery.


Dath Path : Tzeentch Forces Overview

To understand the forces of the God of Change, we must first look at the Legion that is under the care of Tzeentch; The Thousand Sons.

Thousand Sons

When the twenty Primarchs are scattered around the far reaches of the Galaxy, one of the Emperor's sons landed upon the world known as Prospero. The world is a world with very few redeeming qualities, save for the fact that is is a good hiding places for exiles and those who seek to escape from persecution. Thus, it came to no surprise that a community of psykers.

When the Primarch was first found by the community of psykers, they noticed that unlike any other infant he does not have two eys, but instead he had but one eye. Whether or not that single eye is something akin to the mythical cyclops (single eye centered on his face) or was simply missing the eye from one socket it is never known. However, where a child of such deformity wouldhave been killed by the local populace, the exiled community of psykers took the child in, recognizing that the child is one of their own.

Like every Primarch, the child grows up to become the ward of his society. As he grows, he quickly developed the psychic powers common to the community and by the time he reaches physical maturity his psychic powers are such that his powers are the most powerful upon the planet and it is said that his psychic potential is second only to the Emperor of Mankind himself. One day, the Primarch used his single eye to look into the Immaterium, and his life changed forever....

The Emperor of Mankind went to the world of Prospero, noticing a psyhic beacon that is his son, Magnus. The meeting of Father and Son face to face is said to be a mere formality, for they had already met each other in the Warp and had establish a bod with each other. And thus after that fateful meeting, the Emperor granted Magnus the control of the legion that came to be known as the Thousand Sons.

The name of the legion stems from the fact that only a thousand marines are created from the geneseed of the Primarch. Like the Primarch, the Legion has many psychically attuned individuals during the same time, a great number of Mankind calls forth the extermination of the mutant and the psyker. WIth that sentiment floating around his Legion,Magnus took upon himself to save his legion and training his Marines in the way of the psyker. Indeed, Magnus was a pivotal figure in creating the Space Marine element known these days as the Librarian.


However it was said that it was then that Magnus falls to the lures of Chaos, the legion's pursuit for knowledge turned into them dabbling in the world of sorcery. However, many had not noticed Magnus' pursuit into sorcery, but there are concerns from the Witch Hunters and also some of Primarchs about the concerns of Psykers and sorcery.

In the end, the Emperor held a council on the planet Nikaea, bidding that both sides present their view. In an ancient amphitheatre, the witch hunters presented their case, citing many instances of misery and horror caused by those who consorted with the warp. In response, Magnus himself rose to address those gathered in the amphitheatre. He argued that no knowledge was intrinsically evil, and that the Thousand Sons had complete mastery of the sorcerous arts. In the end, a contingent of Librarians proposed a compromise. This compromise entailed the identification and thorough training of those with psychic potential, but a complete ban on the study of sorcery and incantation. The Emperor immediately ruled it law, thus creating the Edicts of Nikaea.

Ironically, it was Magnus who first saw the treachery of Horus and the beginig of the Horus Heresy. While meditating, he foresaw all the events that are to be unfold, al except his own fate. Guided by this vision, Magnus sought to warn his father about the treachery. However, instead of using the Astrotelepathy, Magnus called forth his most powerful psykers to deliver the message to the Emperor via sorcery.

When the Emperor received the message from Magnus, he is angered at Magnus breaking the Edict of Nikaea, but more angered with the fact that the strong psychic message broke the seal on his webway project, an attempt to break into and use the Eldar webway that would render warp travel obsolete. And thus with great reluctance and anger that the Emperor calls forth Leman Russ, the Primarch of the Space Wolves to hunt down Magnus and his legion.

During his journey to Prospero, Leman Russ was ordered by Warmaster Horus to destroy Magnus's Legion rather than simply bring them to account. Accompanying the Space Wolves were with a full contingent of Adeptus Custodes, and the elite anti-psyker (pariah gene-bearing) units, the Sisters of Silence.

It came as a great shock to Magnus and his legion when the the forces of the Imperium falls upon the world of Prospero and with the addition of the neglect of the planetary defense system by the Thousand Sons in their pursuit for knowledge, the forces of the Imperium enters the world of Prospero without much resistance.

Landing on Prospero, the Space Wolves destroyed the capital city and with it the Thousand Sons' hard-won knowledge. In the close-quarter melees that followed, Magnus and Russ met in single combat from there, a battle of titanic proportion in which Russ' Martial prowess is met by the prodigious psychic powers of Magnus.. At the climax of the battle, Magnus shattered Russ's breastplate, puncturing one of the Primarch's hearts, but Leman Russ countered with a salvo of thunderous combo's and a final earth shattering head butt that bloodied Magnus's single eye and fractured his skull before seizing Magnus's broken body and lifted him into the air, before bringing him down over a bent knee, breaking Magnus's back.

It was then that Magnus pledged allegiance to the powers of the Warp in order to save himself, his legion and the accumulated knowledge that he hoarded. One of the most mightiest Chaos Gods heed Magnus' pledge, and the Changer of Ways' response is immediate. The entire City of Light was transported into the Eye of Terror. Even though the world is destroyed that day, but the Thousand Sons live on. The next time the Imperial forces met the Thousand Sons, they are fighting beside Horus, with Magnus becoming the most powerful of Tzeentch's servants.


After the Horus Heresy, the Thousand Sons earned themselves a world inside the blighted realm of the Eye of Terror, the World of Sorcerers where Magnus sits upon the highest peak, watching the world with his single eye.

The Rubric of Ahriman

Upon claiming the Daemon World, Tzeentch began bestowing his gifts to the Thousand Sons in the forms of mutations that could ultimately spell the doom for the legion. Armed with this depressing though, the most capable and powerful of the Legion's sorcerer led by Ahriman began to secretly cast a spell that will came to be known as the Rubric of Ahriman.

The Rubric of Ahriman have but two purpose; First, to stop the mutation that is plaguing the Legion and secondly, to prevent future mutations. Initially the spell worked the way it was supposed to work, but then the spell spirals out of control and it was then that Magnus realized what his cabal of sorcerers had done and stepped in and stopped the spell from further damage.

The Rubric both saved and destroyed the legion, for those who are not psychically attuned are turned to dust and their souls trapped in their power armour for all eternity while those who have psychic potential have their psychic powers amplified to such an extend that they are are arguably the most dangerous and powerful of psykers in the known universe.

Magnus was enraged, as the Legion he had sacrificed so much for had been destroyed. Striding to the top of his tower, he swore that he would see the galaxy burn and summoned Ahriman to account for his actions. Even though Ahriman's power are strong, but they are not as strong as that of the Daemon Primarch. As Magnus is about the finish Ahriman with a single killing blow, a voice echoes in Magnus' ears; "Magnusss ... You would sssmash my pawns too readily."


Realizing that it was Tzeentch's doing all along, Magnus banished Ahriman off , ultimately sparing Ahriman, realising there were yet still things beyond even his elevated understanding.


Now that we know about the Legion of the Sorcerers, let's see what makes the Thousand Sons in the new codex different from the old one.


Times have changed....


In the Old codex, the Thousand Sons are perhaps one of the toughest troopers out there along with the Detah Guard, for each one of the Rubrics have two wounds. In fact that is one of the main reasons why people choose the Rubric Marines; the Rubric. Their movement countsas Slow and Purposeful, which means that they can shoot at their maximum distance even after moving and this certainly adds to their appeal.

However, ultimately the reason why people start the Thousand Sons is their access to their Psychic powers, which they they can use freely without rolling to pass for them. In addition, their psychic powers are very potent, and can be considered as the most potent offensive psychic powers in the game.

However that resilience comes at a price, for they are extremely slow without the help of the Aspiring Sorcerer and even then they are still rather slow. Thus mobility is of the essence in a Thousand Sons army, with every infantry unit being mounted in Rhinos. In addition due to the Rubric, they ar unable to take any veteran skills and also special and heavy weapons. They are also restricted as they can not take bikers, Raptors and Havoc Squads.


With the new codex, they are still in essence the same, but with additional goodies that made almost everyone cry out "Cheddar!"

Let's begin with the flagship unit of the Thousand Sons army; the Rubric Marines

Even though they still are slow and can't carry any special and heavy weapons in addition to losing their extra wounds, but thy are now even more deadly than before for now they all have a 4+ invulnerable save build into them, and also they have something that cause all MEQ armies in the world tremble, the AP3 Bolter.

And now they are not restricted in ther FOC, for now they can take bike, Havocs and other goodies as offered in the new Chaos Codex thus enable a Thousand Sons Player to diversify their list and become more flexible in their army composition

What can the Mark of Tzeentch do for me?

The Mark of Tzeentch allows one's trooper to have a build in 5+ invulnerable save and/or +1 to their invulnerable saves.

Now what does this all means?

Chaos Space Marines in general don't like to get into close combat with something with a power weapon or Rending for they will be slaughtered silly. But with that 5+ invulnerable save, you may have that small chance to save your own Tzeentchian-marked marines. This comes a long way for there is no army out there that allows an entire squad, actually an entire army with Invulnerable saves on their normal troopers.

As I would like to put it, "A person with a shield will survive longer to kill their foe."

But for those troopers that have already an invulnerable save in their stats, need not fear, for their survivability is increased even more. With an increase to their invulnerable save, they will be even more resilient that their counterparts in any Space Marine and Chaos Space Marine army. So the prospect of having 2+ invulnerable save Bikers and 4+ invulnerable save Terminators is a really attractive and scary option.




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Old 18 Jan 2008, 08:50   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dath Path : Tzeentch Forces Overview

Now how on earth do I play Thousand Sons?


Although I have for all intent and purposes not played with a Thousand Sons army before, but I generally see a trend for successful Thousand Sons army. They are

1) Be fast and furious!
2) Screw Close Combat!
3) Choose the right Psychic Powers

Now some of you would say ĎSo what? Thousand Sons does play like any other Chaos Space Marine army.Ē

The answer is downright wrong!

The reason behind this logic is that most of the time, the Mark of Tzeentch is as expensive as 50 centís bling in the game and thus like the Plague Marines, you l tend to be outnumbered like no other and every casualty hurts you so.

In addition, if you go with the Rubrics as your troopers (which most Thousand Sons players most likely to go), it becomes more paramount as they are like the Plague Marines, good but bloody expensive. Add that to them being even slower than any Chaos Marines alive save for Obliterators, they will need to move fast and hard to their objective.

Footslogging them is not a good idea, for you want your weapons to be as effective as it can be. AP3 bolters will put a hurt on armies, but only if they are felt in the battlefield. And for that the footslogging option is not the best option. In addition, once someone kills off the Aspiring sorcerer via some special method (Vindicare Assassin,etc) they will be walking too slow for the to do anything. Thus a mounted squad of Rubrics in a Rhino will generally serve them well, for they are able to become more mobile.

Close Combat for Rubrics are very, very bad indeed for unlike the other Chaos Space Marines, they only have a specific weapon and they are

Aspiring Sorceror: Bolt pistol and Force Weapon
Rubrics: Bolter.

That means that they are to be used in a shooting role, and not assault. They donít get powerfists, they donít get another close combat weaponÖ.you get what I mean Once they shoot their bolter, thatís about it. In addition their weapon is so specialized that they are only good against infantry.

But to compensate, there is the thing called Psychic powers. But even then here most beginners will screw up for there are so many goodies. Thus it is vital that you choose the right psychic powers for the right job, or you will suffer for it. (which psychic powers is best for the Rubrics will be explained in further detail afterwards.)


What does this tell yo? It means that you have to play smartly and also efficiently to truly use them to the best of their abilities.
Now that we are done explaining how to play them, letís look at what the new codex units can do for you.


The Nurgle units and what can be done about them.

Basically each unit has the role similar to that of their normal Chaos Space marines, but also has rather changed roles or held a secondary goal that they can use to further bolster the army or to make things more unpredictable for your opponent that could change the tide of the game.

Letís look at each one of the units.

Units in the Chaos Space Marine Codex and what is it to be done with them
Daemon Prince

The Daemon Prince of Tzeentch is arguably the most flexible of the Daemon Princes for they are good in almost every way. Add that to the fact that they are allowed to take two psychic powers makes them very brutal units.

With an Invulnerable save of 4+, the become a force to be reckoned with for they are now able to protect themselves against power weapons, Rending attacks and other nasty things that ignore armour saves better in close combat or shooting.

In terms of shooting Daemon Princes, the Tzeentchian Daemon Prince wins hands down. This is because it have access to several shooting psychic shooting attacks, the most potent being the Bolt of Change.

In addition, it is also a monster in close combat with Warptime psychic power that can be used after some other psychic powers.

With such nastiness in one unit, what else can be said? And you can take two at that ...>

Chaos Lord

The Chaos Lord for the Tzeentchian forces benefits from an improved invulnerable save and also have access to the Deathscreamer Daemon Weapon, which in essence a Daemon Weapon with the capabilities of shooting like an Inferno bolt bolter but with a random amount of shots.

Generally, it would be very rare indeed to see the Tzeentchian Chaos Lord as compared to what the other HQs can offer you is the Tzeetchian army, it is not a good buy

Sorcerer

Essentially a weaker form of the Tzeentchian Daemon Prince, it is still nevertheless a worthwhile option to take as it is an Independent character which helps in its survival.
In addition, it can take a familiar to take even more psychic powers, but generally that would often mean that it will be too expensive and nigh ipractical. Two psychic powers are potent enough in my opinion.
Chaos Infantry (Chosen , Havocs, etc)

Nothing much can be said here, for they are essentially just a normal Chaos Space Marine with an invulnerable save.

In my opinion, the invulnerable save is there to give your Tzentchian infantry some measure of protection against Assaulters.

Rubric Marines

Even though they still are slow and can't carry any special and heavy weapons in addition to losing their extra wounds, but they are now even more deadly than before for now they all have a 4+ invulnerable save build into them, and also they have something that cause all MEQ armies in the world tremble, the AP3 Bolter.

But yet, they are as stated before a specialized unit, and in order to maximize upon this the right psychic powers are needed to make them good at what they do.

They are in essence a very slow unit, and thus a Rhino is essential for their survival. Since that would mean that they will be using their abilities in a Rhino Rush style, it is best to fit the psychic power in that capacity.

In my opinion, the Gifts of Chaos, Warptime, and Bolt of Change are not the best for an Aspiring Sorcerer. The reason being that they either do not help the Rubrics in what they do.

Thus, the Doombolt and Winds of Chaos are better in my opinion, for they really help the squad in their job and are practical in most situations.

Chaos Terminators

They are perhaps one of the best terminators that a Chaos trooper would have as they are even tougher to kill than any ordinary terminator, standing hand in hand with the Plague terminator. With their better invulnerable saves, they are able to survive longer to bring more hurt to their opponent.

Chaos Bikers and Raptors

They offer something that the any Tzeentchian force would need; a fast counter attack unit, the bikers being the shootier one and the Raptors being the assaultier one. Their role in the army is to basically just out flank and prevent any enemy unit from surrounding you. Initially this may not sound like what I said earlier, but the units here are usually used in a more surprising manner than the others and thus they are able to pull of some interesting tricks from their sleeves.

They are both even tougher than the other marines (save that of Biker Lords and sorcerers and Plague Marines) as they become even harder to counter. For the bikers this is because of their invulnerable saves (2= turboboosting, 5+ invulnerable normal). For the raptors, they are able to fight in close combat even longer and that is vital for an assaulter.

They are expensive, so use them with care.


Conclusion


Playing a Tzeentchian force is very interesting, for you will tend to see a lot of psychic powers flying around the map, and also seeing that you units have a good chance of surviving many shots that would make normal marines cry out loud.

So if you like a force of God-like psychic powers and warp protection, look no further.

So until next time, I hope I darken you day enough for you to let the galaxy Burn.


The next installment in the series will be coming soon.....


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Old 18 Jan 2008, 15:47   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Dath Path : Tzeentch Forces Overview

It might be important to point out a couple of the weaknesses of the Tzeentch units:

1. All Tzeentch Sorcerers, Independent Characters, and Special Characters are required to make psychic tests in order to use their psychic powers. This generally means that you will be taking 1 or 2 wounds due to a perils of the warp result each game.

2. A Tzeentch Sorcerer can make two psychic tests per turn. Only one of these may be used for a shooting power. The other may be used either for one of his other powers, or for his force weapon.

3. A Tzeentch Sorcerer is NOT fearless, unlike the Demon Prince and Chaos Lord.

4. Tzeentch forces cannot rely on their awesome psychic powers for anti-tank. You will usually find yourself low on anti-tank.

5. Because of the mandatory Sorcerer & psychic power, Thousand Sons squads are more expensive than any other cult legion troops.

6. Do not overestimate the killing ability of AP3 bolters. You will not kill nearly as many marines as you think. An equivalent cost squad of regular Chaos marines with 2 plasma gunners will kill roughly the same amount, depending on the psychic power you choose for your sorcerer (doombolt and wind of chaos are the winners here).

7. Your Rubrics will die just as easily as regular marines to things that are NOT AP3 or lower.

8. You can do well in assault against T4 and lower. You might do ok against T5-T7, because you can probably kill something that you wound with the force weapon. You are giving your opponent free victory points if you assault a Wraithlord and, unless you took meltabombs, any AV11+ walker. Do not rely on Gift of Chaos. Keep yourself at range and shoot.

9. If you find yourself doing poorly with your psychic tests, remember that your sorcerers have an AP3 bolt pistol, and being within 12" means you get to shoot it twice while rapid firing your bolters.

10. Your rubrics are fearless, so they cannot be pinned unless they get entangled from a transport wreck. Do not let this happen. Your units need to be pumping bolter rounds into the enemy until the end of the game in order for you to come close to winning. A missed turn of shooting will hurt your chances.
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 16:09   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dath Path : Tzeentch Forces Overview

An input from a Thousand Sons player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyCool
1. All Tzeentch Sorcerers, Independent Characters, and Special Characters are required to make psychic tests in order to use their psychic powers. This generally means that you will be taking 1 or 2 wounds due to a perils of the warp result each game.
But psychic powers test with a Leadership of 10 rarely fails. Besides most often than not , you will not be able to use your abilities constantly as a result of limiters upon the table (LOS, terrain layout, enemy threats, etc). So a save bet is about 3-4 psychic test for the entire game for that character.

But I most certainly forgotten to mention about them now having to pass their leadership to cast their psychic powers. Thanks for reminding me about that.

Quote:
2. A Tzeentch Sorcerer Lord can make two psychic test per turn. Only one of these may be used for a shooting power. The other may be used either for one of his other powers, or for his force weapon.
Thanks for mentioning that. It kinda slipped my mind. :P

Quote:
3. A Tzeentch Sorcerer Lord is NOT fearless, unlike the Demon Prince and Chaos Lord.
Agreed. But the IC status will enable the sorceror to avoid being hurt unless it ventures too close.

Quote:
4. Tzeentch forces cannot rely on their awesome psychic powers for anti-tank. You will usually find yourself low on anti-tank.
You hit the point. That's why you would have to rely on other unmarked units such as Predators or Oblietrators for your anti-tank.

But remember that now not all Tzentchian Marines are Rubrics. Thus the feasbility of taking Chosens and also Chaos Space Marines are viable for you o get your anti-tank.

Quote:
5. Because of the mandatory Sorcerer & psychic power, Thousand Sons squads are more expensive than any other cult legion troops.
This one you are definitely right.

Quote:
6. Do not overestimate the killing ability of AP3 bolters. You will not kill nearly as many marines as you think. An equivalent cost squad of regular Chaos marines with 2 plasma gunners will kill roughly the same amount, depending on the psychic power you choose for your sorcerer (doombolt and wind of chaos are the winners here).
I did not say that they are uber units, I say that they are good at killing some things good (MEQs). Against Imperial Guardsmen or Tau Fire Warriors, it is quite a waste of Inferno bolts.

That's why there are the complementory Psychic units to make them even better at what they do; Killing infantry, particularly MEQ marines.

Quote:
7. Your Rubrics will die just as easily as regular marines to things that are NOT AP3 or lower.
No argument there, for I am with you. My argument about them being resileient is towards AP3 and below weaponry.

Quote:
8. You can do well in assault against T4 and lower. You might do ok against T5-T7, because you can probably kill something that you wound with the force weapon. You are giving your opponent free victory points if you assault a Wraithlord and, unless you took meltabombs, any AV11+ walker. Do not rely on Gift of Chaos. Keep yourself at range and shoot.
They are decent in close combat, but generally the placing of close combat is such that most often the Aspiring sorcerer would be in base to base contact with enemy forces in close combat, and from there it will take some time to get out from which they should have been doing. A Rubric in assault is not the best idea.

Quote:
9. If you find yourself doing poorly with your psychic tests, remember that your sorcerers have an AP3 bolt pistol, and being within 12" means you get to shoot it twice while rapid firing your bolters.
Agreed.

Quote:
10. Your rubrics are fearless, so they cannot be pinned unless they get entangled from a transport wreck. Do not let this happen. Your units need to be pumping bolter rounds into the enemy until the end of the game in order for you to come close to winning. A missed turn of shooting will hurt your chances.
No argument there, for I agree with you.


Thanks for the input, for I am a little foreign to the idea of the Thousand Sons. Your comments most certaink be able to help aspring Tzentchian players to know more about their army.
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Old 18 Jan 2008, 17:03   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Dath Path : Tzeentch Forces Overview

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper

An input from a Thousand Sons player.
Quite literally, actually. I do my best to approximate the legion rules we had in the previous edition, and restrict myself to using only Rubrics as troops. So be sure to take some of my input with that grain of salt in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper

But psychic powers test with a Leadership of 10 rarely fails. Besides most often than not , you will not be able to use your abilities constantly as a result of limiters upon the table (LOS, terrain layout, enemy threats, etc). So a save bet is about 3-4 psychic test for the entire game for that character.
True. I run a demon prince (with warptime and wind) and three units of Rubrics. I can expect, on average, to roll around 26 psychic tests in a game, and I usually wind up with a perils of the warp on one of my Rubric unit sorcerers (which kills him with no save on a 2+), and sometimes a wound on my prince. Remember that warptime can be used at the beginning of every turn (including your opponent's turns). And generally, you can get your Rubrics in range of their powers by turn 2. That has been my experience at any rate. As always, YMMV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
Agreed. But the IC status will enable the sorceror to avoid being hurt unless it ventures too close.
True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
You hit the point. That's why you would have to rely on other unmarked units such as Predators or Oblietrators for your anti-tank.
True. I personally find that Obliterators are too fragile if there are no tanks in your army to shoot at, but otherwise they work well. I generally prefer Predators, Defilers, and Dreadnoughts for my anti-tank.

That said, the Bolt of Change psychic power and the Wind of Chaos psychic power both make reasonably effective anti-tank in a pinch. The Bolt is Str 8, and Wind glances all vehicles on a 4+.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
But remember that now not all Tzentchian Marines are Rubrics. Thus the feasbility of taking Chosens and also Chaos Space Marines are viable for you o get your anti-tank.
Correct. Through the artificial limitations I put on myself, I don't have such options, but a standard Tzeentch player can take Havocs, Oblits, Infiltrating Chosen with Meltas, Chaos Marines with a heavy weapon, etc. The high cost of the Icon of Tzeentch still limits these choices somewhat, except for the oblits, who can't have a mark.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
I did not say that they are uber units, I say that they are good at killing some things good (MEQs). Against Imperial Guardsmen or Tau Fire Warriors, it is quite a waste of Inferno bolts.
I wasn't saying that you called them uber units, but the AP3 bolter will get you cries of cheese like nothing else. And even while they beat you to a bloody pulp because of their numerical superiority, they'll still cry cheese at your AP3 bolters. ;D

That said, they are still the kings of ranged MEQ killing. And they'll make Tau and Imperial Guard with the Carapace Armor doctrine cry...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
That's why there are the complementory Psychic units to make them even better at what they do; Killing infantry, particularly MEQ marines.
Absolutely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
No argument there, for I am with you. My argument about them being resileient is towards AP3 and below weaponry.
Agreed on that. The 4+ invulnerable means they have a good shot at shrugging off all those anti-tank shots and powerweapon/fist wounds. For an unprepared opponent, their resilience can be a game winner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
They are decent in close combat, but generally the placing of close combat is such that most often the Aspiring sorcerer would be in base to base contact with enemy forces in close combat, and from there it will take some time to get out from which they should have been doing. A Rubric in assault is not the best idea.
Agreed. The Rubrics will do their best when shooting, so it is in your best interest to shoot as often as possible with them. That said, they are still marines and can mop up against mediocre or weak units in assault if needs be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
Thanks for the input, for I am a little foreign to the idea of the Thousand Sons. Your comments most certaink be able to help aspring Tzentchian players to know more about their army.
No problem. I adore the Thousand Sons, and would love to see more players use them. The new codex makes playing Tzeentch more effective than before, and I think that we can now be a serious contender.
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Old 19 Jan 2008, 00:23   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dath Path : Tzeentch Forces Overview

We thought long and hard about this...they can be soooo hard...But the bikes can be nullified, unfortunatley it takes grey knights with psycannons, When they turboboost their armour save becomes invunerable so technically they have no armour save and grey knights remove them no problems... but as I say the only solution we thought of is speciallised and with a staff member ordering thousand son parts and chaos bike parts it is only a mater of time till we suffer at this armys hands...
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Old 19 Jan 2008, 02:17   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dath Path : Tzeentch Forces Overview

AH, but remember that you rarely face Grey Knights on the table. So the Tzeetchian bikers are quite hard.
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Old 19 Jan 2008, 04:35   #8 (permalink)
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C_V, Mal beat me to the punch, so you're karma has already been awarded for another great Cult Legion article. However, I felt IcyCool's input was also very good so congrats to Icy on his first cookie!

I'll be looking forward to the next one C_V.
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Old 19 Jan 2008, 05:29   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cadaver
C_V, Mal beat me to the punch, so you're karma has already been awarded for another great Cult Legion article. However, I felt IcyCool's input was also very good so congrats to Icy on his first cookie!
Thanks for telling me who gave me the Karma. And now I am off to thank Malveaux for the Karma.

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I'll be looking forward to the next one C_V.
Thanks again. I will not disappoint .

And congrats on your first Karma Icycool. ;D
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Old 20 Jan 2008, 20:26   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Dath Path : Tzeentch Forces Overview

Great thread Crisis sorry I did not see it sooner, I have been busy.
Here are just some of my thoughts on the new list.
First HQ

HQ

Daemon Prince:
The Tzeentchian Daemon Prince is arguably the most powerful daemon prince to curse the gaming table as his mark not only increases his defense (+1 to invulnerable save) but also increases his offensive power by granting him another psychic power. However he is also the most expensive Daemon Prince with an expensive mark and the second psychic power also costing points.

With the ability to take two psychic powers, the Tzeentchian Daemon Prince also has the option of becoming one of the few shooty characters in the game by using two abilities,
1. He is allowed to use two psychic powers in the same turn
2. He is a Monstrous Creature and therefore can fire two ranged weapons on the same turn.
Buy using powers such as Doombolt and Wind of Chaos in the same turn you can destroy whole units of lesser enemies. However this is not necessarily a good thing as Daemon Princes need Close Combat to survive.

Generally, if the Daemon Prince is in range to use these powers then he is within assault range of the enemy unit and also revealed to the enemy, and a Daemon Prince reviled to the enemy is about to get shot to the warp and back! But, by assaulting the enemy he can prevent them from firing at him the next turn. Once in close combat, Warp Time becomes almost mandatory to deal with enemy characters that will try to prevent you Daemon Prince from carving up their units like a Christmas turkey.

Therefore, I consider Wings and Warp Time to be mandatory buys for any Daemon Prince. As for the second power I always use Wind of Chaos (Which only got sweeter with the new codex) but Gift of Chaos and Doombolt if you are low on points are also good options.

Now, before I go any further I would like to talk to you about a power named Bolt of Change.
DO NOT TAKE IT!
It is simply a horrible power for the units that can take it.
Your Thousand Sons optimum range is 12Ē for their Bolters and your Sorcerer leading the squad should be supporting them and your characters should be supporting your units. The power is over priced and does not mesh with the units.
If you want anti tank (And you do) then you will have to use tanks to fill it.

Sorcerer:
Options, options, options, that is what this dude will bring you.

With the option to take enough psychic powers to make Harry Potter jealous, this guy can teach those loyalist librarians a lesson!
Equipped with a Force weapon, Warp Time and riding a Disk of Tzeentch, he can be a fearsome opponent in close combat while still blasting opponents with Doombolt and Wind of Chaos.

However, with all these options it is easy to be overwhelmed and take to many of them and end up with a Rambo Sorcerer equipped to take on an army on his own, but wasting some of his potential.

First, however tempting it is, do not buy a familiar and take a third power. There are two reasons for this,
1. Cost. With a third power he will be far to expensive.
2. He can only cast two powers in a turn, and only use 1 shooting power. Buying another power would mean you would be wasting one every turn.
Therefore, two is best.

Now then, what powers to takeÖ
The Sorcerer is similar to the Daemon Prince, but cheaper and a smaller target.
He makes a great supporting unit for your Suns and will make the enemy think twice about assaulting them if given Warp Time. With Warp Time you can also almost guarantee at least one wound from your force weapon on larger enemy creatures, and considering you can only use one ranged power a turn Warp Time is a very good choice.
After Warp Time, the other powers are excellent also. Take Doombolt if you are low on points and Wind of Chaos or Gift of Chaos if you have more to work with.

The Sorcerer also has several modes of transport, a Bike, Wings or Daemonic Steed (Disk of Tzeentch). The Jet Pack/Wings option falls short of the Disk in my opinion. For 10 more points you gain an extra attack which is well worth it. Also for the same points cost you can give him a Bike and grant him +1 toughness.
So, it boils down to weather you would like to increase his toughness or attacks. (keep in mind that the increase in toughness will help when you take a Perils of the Warp testÖ)

However, if you really want to take defense to the max you can give him a suit of terminator armor. While the armor restricts him to normal infantry movement, do not forget that he can still join a unit of normal Thousand Sons and offer support. The Terminator armor also gives his the ability to deep strike, lending even greater punch to terminator squads.

And last and least is the

Chaos Lord:
Whereas other legions would find the Chaos Lord a welcome addition to their warband, for Tzeentch he is actually not all that useful. I suggest staying away from this guy unless you have a themed army or are looking for some cheep close combat support, which is one thing he can provide.

Elites

Chosen:
AhÖ.nothing like the smell of burnt Deathguard.

These guys can be a very useful, if expensive addition to a Tzeentch army. They provide three valuable things,
1. Special weapons
2. Assault weapons
3. Infiltrate

The Special weapons can provide some much needed anti tank to the Tzeentchian army in the form of Plasma and melta death squads. However, the Plasma Guns are usually the better option as they are able to deal with more threats easier and can function well with bolters.

Another choice is to equip them with assault weapons and use them as a counter charge unit. Most opponents know that the Thousand Sons are deficient in assault and will seek to close to attack you. A unit suddenly assaulting them with 2 pairs of power claws and 2 power fists.

And finally, Chosen can infiltrate letting them deploy close to the enemy. This combines well with their marks benefit of a 5+ invulnerable save as it could help with their survivability.

However, I find that infiltrate is normally not a good idea unless you are doing it with at least two units as most opponents target the infiltrating unit before any other and it could very well lead to your Chosen getting wiped out. It is probably better to keep them close to the rest of your army and stay safe.

If you chose to do this and keep them next to your army then a Rhino would help with the mobility of the plasma/melta squad letting them arrive where needed and within 12Ē. The Close Combat squad however would probably be better of walking as they cannot assault out of a Rhino that has moved.

Chaos Terminators:
The new Tzeentchian Terminators may not be as tough or as varied they where in the last codex, but their defiantly better than your normal termies. However, thus does not mean that their role is different. They still do things that other terminators do, trounce things in Close Combat and short range, itís just that they are more likely to survive.

Possessed:
Iíve heard many things about the Possessed, some good and some bad. I however think they are one of the best units to use with the Thousand Sons!
This is due mostly to our deficiency in Close Combat where they serve as a valuable counter charge unit regardless of skills. And even without skills they are still a force to be reckoned with.
Iíve had my unit of 5 possessed keep an Ork Warlord with Nobs locked in Close Combat for 3 turns and my only ability was Fleet of Foot and the Tzeentchian mark helped them a lot with the Ork Power Claws.
However, compared to the Possessed of other legions, ours are not quite so hot. The Khorn and Slaanesh mark help them out better in assault and make them even fiercer.

Dreadnought:
Iím not quite sure how to respond to a Dreadnought in the Thousand Sons. On the one hand it gives us a counter charge unit with good ranged firepower and it does not eat up a Heavy Suport slot which we can use to get more anti tank. But on the other, it is an expensive unit which has a 1/3 chance of wigging out and its counter charge and ranged abilities we can find for better elsewhere in the list.

So, I suppose you can take one if you want and it could do an OK job of supporting our infantry, as long as it does not start freaking out and blasting them.

Troops:

Thousand Sons:
Ah, meet your bread and butter. Letís take an in-depth look at the dustpans,

At 8 points more than the basic Chaos Space marine they are expensive, but with good reason. They are fearless, so you can rely on them not to run away. They come with a nice invulnerable save which will protect them from plasma weapons or ordinance barrages quite nicely, protecting youíre investment, and on the offensive they pack the dreaded (Or not soÖ) AP 3 Bolter. And finally, they have Slow and Purposeful.
Time for me to say it again,
Slow and Purposeful is NOT a bad thing!
Slow and Purposeful lets you take full advantage of your bolters letting you keep up a fusillade of firepower while moving, and the downside is rarely a downside at all. You will most likely role a 5 or 6. Also, this drawback will have no affect on you while moving through terrain as you already move 2D6.
Now that we have that out of the way,

Thousand Sons are outstanding troops, they are able to take damage that would wipe other units off the face of the table and keep on going. Their bolters are able to repel all but the best protected or numerous enemy and finally they will not turn tail and run like their cowardly opponents. I guess being a walking tin can has its advantages.
However, there are some things that Thousand Sons do not do so well, Close Combat, Hoards and Anti Tank (Or really any kind of long ranged fire power)

Close Combat will always be a chink in the Thousand Sons (Prodigious) armor. Thousand Sons will only ever have 1 attack and the Sorcerer leading them cannot be equipped with a Power Fist like he used to be. Therefore you should make enemy assault units your prime target. Wipe them out before they get a chance to assault you and you have counteracted this weakness already! However, sometimes you just cannot prevent the enemy from charging you and in cases like this you should bring in a counter charge unit.

Counter charge units can take many forms, Daemon Princes, Possessed, assault equipped Chosen, Raptors and Bikes can be used to lend help to a unit already in combat and rescue it. Generally counter charge units should be fast enough to reach the assault or deployed well enough to provide help when the enemy does arrive. It always pays to have a unit ready to help in assault.

Next is Hoards. Thousand Sons simply lack the numbers to counter huge numbers of enemy combatants like Tyranids and Orks and the worst part is, there is no simple way to counter this. Against massive numbers of enemy combatants you should focus what fire you have against key enemy units like Synapse Creatures or the Ork Warboss. The worst case is if he can bring a number of squads/broods into combat with your units. Avoid this situation like a toilet used by Nurgle. Destroy his squads on at a time and limit the number of bodyís he can through at you at once.

Finally we have tanks. The basic Thousand Sons are unequipped to deal with any kind of armor and need the help of other units to deal with them before they become a problem. However there is some good news,
1. Itís relatively easy to get anti tank and
2. Most tanks are not equipped to deal with Thousand Sons. Almost all tanks are designed to attack hoards of infantry or other tanks. The Thousand Sons invulnerable save is enough to provide protection from random lascannons and their armor is thick enough for heavy bolters to bounce off.

No conversation about the Thousand Sons would be complete without talking about the Sorcerer leading them. Regardless of the Sorcerers cost you should always take one, he provides them with their modes of movement and psychic powers as well as a force weapon.
The best psychic power to give him would be Doombolt if you are on a budget and Wind of Chaos if you have some to spend. Warp Time is an interesting option as is Gift of Chaos, but Thousand Sons are to expensive to be for these powers to be used with as they could backfire on your strategy.

Finally we have the option of tacking a Rhino Transport for them. Rhinoís are a Thousand Sons best friend as they provide a shield and increased movement all in one convenient package. However Thousand Sons do not necessarily need a Rhino to be effective and can be used as a Foot Slogging unit, but in order to get the most out of them a Rhino is a great buy.

Chaos Space Marines:
(with the mark of Tzeentch)
You also have the option of tacking normal chaos space marines with the mark of Tzeentch. These units are generally cheaper than the Thousand Sons and can provide you with more bodies. They can also be equipped with Heavy and Special weapons so you can use them to fill in an anti armor role if you need to. They are an interesting option and can last longer with their invulnerable save, but donít really provide much except bodies (Which is not all that bad considering how outnumbered Thousand Sons normally areÖ)

Fast Attack:

Bikers:
A squad or two of Bikers can be a very nasty surprise for any opponent that thinks the Thousand Sons slow. They can function as a great counter attack unit able to appear exactly where needed and will last a while because of their high toughness and invulnerable save. I would however avoid giving them any Special weapons in order to keep their extra attack for having another CCW.

But, compared to the other Counter Charging units we have at our disposal the Bikers are the most expensive, and in an army that already has expense issues this can be a bad thing, however their speed and defense make them an effective unit.

Raptors:
Raptors can be a fun unit to try out with the Thousand Sons and can perform the same counter charging role as the bikers but for less points (But less toughness as well..) almost everything that I said about bikers can be said about Raptors. Raptors can also be used as tank hunters if given Melta Guns.

Chaos Spawn.
Random.
Thatís the word to describe them. They are random in almost every way, including how they perform. But a nice trick to try would be keeping them behind you Thousand Sons and using them to tackle units that assault the Suns. Their also relatively cheep so you can through them at the enemy without a second thought.

Heavy Support:

Havocs:
This unit can be great for the Suns, giving them the mark will mean they will be as well protected out in the open as held up in a forest which could block their line of sight. They can be used in two ways the first is as a long ranged firepower unit. Equipped with four heavy weapons they can pump some firepower down range at the enemy and take out larger nastiness or weaken units to before they get any closer.

The other way to use them is equipped with four Special weapons where they can be used like the Chosen squad and provide a large hurricane of plasma fire or some concentrated melta goodness.

Obliterators:
I know Iím probably a minority in this, but I personally do not like oblits. While they may be able to changer their weapons, they lack numbers and are expensive. Because I donít use them, I donít have any real advice to give on them. :P sorry.

Predator:
The Predator, I never leave home without at least 1. The Predator can provide us with the firepower to take out tanks or hoards of infantry, two things that can hurt us severely! What you arm it with depends on your list, but the Twin Linked Lascannon is what I would suggest as standard.
You can give your Preds. Extra Armor or Daemonic Possession is up to how many points you want to spend and how you think itís shooting will perform, but I normaly use Possession.

Vindicator:
A Vindicator is not really my stile, but that does not mean I donít find it to be a good unit. The Thousand Sons can use it to get rid of large squads of Tyrandis or Orks or nuke Terminator squads. It can work well with the SunsÖand yet it just does not feel right in a Suns army personally, but it is up to if you wish to use it. Also, Daemonic Possession is almost required for this artillery peace.

Defiler:
This is the other tank I donít leave home without. The Defiler can be an intimidating unit for the opponent for its mere looks and can take a fair amount of fire. However it is itís battle cannon that makes it so valuable to the Suns. Its cannon can wipe squads out as well as the Vindicator but at longer ranges and can work havoc with hoard armies as it is more likely to hit something even if it scatters. The Defiler can also be a functional counter charge unit if you really need it to, but I would suggest only in extreme cases.

Land Raider:
Oh boy, this thing can role into the midst of an enemy with impunity if given Daemonic Possession (well, not so much against Eldar) and can unload a full squad of Thousand Sons right in the enemyís face while sending out itís own firepower. The Chaos Land Raider can really be a beast; however it can also be relay expensive! Only use it in larger games as there are other things that you will need much more in the army.

Well, I hope that this will help you get the most out of your army of walking automata or helped you see that the Thousand Sons can be a rewarding army to play as and against. See you in the Black LibraryÖeventually.
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