[Thecelestialbard]

I never seem to here much about these two units nor never seem them in army lists. Now I can understand why people skip over the bikes they are not really all that cheap 3 more points then a termie. I guess some dont see a model that all it really is is a CSM that can move alot faster and the bolter is twin linked. I have never used them however I would rather take the raptors instead but I can see the turbo-boost as being very useful.

As for raptors, I used them once and havent gone with out them sense. Last game I used them they made quick work of the tau in a 1000pt game. Anyways how come I never seem to hear much about ether of them? Any reason? OR do people just shoot straight for the plague/noise/khorne/1ksons?


Edit: Do not post specific point costs for models. It is in breach of GW policy and against forum rules. - Cadaver

[Cadaver]

Bikes can be useful but I think several factors hold people back from fielding lots of them. One is the high price of the models. I personally haven't found bikes to be very effective unless in large numbers. They tend to draw alot of attention and as a result can die quickly if you aren't careful. The toughness increase, which you didn't mention, is a plus but does little against high strength weapons that will surely be targetting them as they head towards enemy lines.

While I'm speaking only on my experience with Space Marine and not Chaos Space Marine bikes the same conclusions can be drawn to some extent. The difference is that CSM bikers can be marked which can increase their effectiveness considerably, depending on their role. I won't go into great detail but obviously giving them a Nurgle or Tzeentch mark can increase durability, while Khorne or Slaanesh can increase combat prowess. This, however, further increases their cost making them a very expensive unit that usually will require a solid plan built around their inclusion in an army.

The combination of these things may result in most people overlooking their potential but I think with the new codex they are getting a bit more attention as a good option for certain army lists.

Raptors, I've always thought were quite popular. I see them mentioned quite often in tacticas and included in army list pretty regularly. Maybe it's just a lack of players in your area who use them, or simply the army lists you've read happen to lack them.

[Brass Claw]

Raptors are a large part of of my fighting force (Khornate) I basically have them tank hunter assault unit with 8 of them 2 with melta guns and a champ with lightning claws and of course a Icon of Khorne. They are actually cheaper then my berzerkers and they always move a 12inches, unlike my berzkerers.

I do have a unit of bikers, but i have used them yet with the new dex. Most people use the bikers as a daemon delivery system, but with the daemon becoming medicore, people now shy away

Heya,

I believe it all boils down to personal choice really, some people swear by Raptors and Bikes, others don't. It depends on what playstyle you prefer, some people may prefer footslogging up the battlefield, some may prefer to sit back and let loose the guns, others may prefer an all out assault wave or some may prefer their units mechanised. Just because you take a certain unit, it doesn't mean that others will follow suit.

I have noticed that the new Codex has opened up a world of new options, and that people's army lists are more diverse and varied. One unit however which I seem to catch quite often in army lists is a Daemon Prince with the Lash of Submission. In my opinion the "Lash Prince" is the most stupidest combination of equipment ever, on one hand you have the overestimated Lash of Submission, a power which is used in the shooting phase, then on the other hand you have the Daemon Prince, the most fierce HQ we have available and whom you can tell as plain as daylight is made for the assault phase. So why then stick to polar opposite choices on the same model? As if a Daemon Prince is as big a target enough, then you need to keep him out of the assault phase so that he can use the LoS! Then you just end up sacrificing one advantage over another! It's ludicrous!

Sorry for that minor outburst, I just had to let that loose. Anyway, if there is one unit that I do see recurring throughout army lists it is the "Lash Prince," 40k's most pointless and overestimated HQ choice.

As for the likes of Raptors and Bikes, I've seen them been played before at my local GW store, but with hot new units like Possessed and Terminators, I'm afraid Raptors and Bikes can't compete, popularity wise, because they don't have new plastic models, simple.

[shas ek denekai eart]

Actually lash of submission is assault style so people yank that anoyying battle suit toward them and give 'em hell!

Originally Posted by Sniper King

Actually lash of submission is assault style so people yank that anoyying battle suit toward them and give 'em hell!

Yes you could do that, but why? Surely if you give a Daemon Prince wings he should be able to close with the enemy quicker. Besides, why take LoS anyway when you could have a Daemon Prince with Warptime! Now that would make for a potent and deadly combination.

I don't think I should have dragged up the whole "Lash of Submission" topic again, so for the sake of stopping a fire before it's starts I'll shut my mouth (or fingers, more appropriately. :P)

[Sardis Varrn]

Originally Posted by Anton

As for the likes of Raptors and Bikes, I've seen them been played before at my local GW store, but with hot new units like Possessed and Terminators, I'm afraid Raptors and Bikes can't compete, popularity wise, because they don't have new plastic models, simple.

I think you've hit the nail on the head there!

I think that raptors in the new codex are a very good choice, as they are cheap (for jump infantry) and you can customise them to fill multiple different roles. Ive got 1 unit in my current army and am looking into including another. As for bikers, i think that they are a little expensive for what they do and if you don't have a specific plan in mind for them there are better options available.

[Solarius Scorch]

I have generally good feelings about bikers. They're not cheap, but they make excellent combat units: hard to kill (To bonus from the bike) and able to reach the right place quickly. I usually use them against Max Smirnov's IG veterans and the like, who are basically blood-crazed maniacs trying to tear my marines apart with bare hands (and often actually succeeding). Bikes are simply a good unit to stop enemy advance before your main forces get there. They are also good at hunting specific targets.
As for the raptors, I'm still looking for an appropriate role for them... For now, I use them as a retinue for my winged Sorceress.

[korik1]

As has already been said bikes are expensive both $ and points wise. These restrict their uses. Plus, as has been said, they really need a very specific use. The problem I see with them is that they aren't specialized enough. Sure they can assault quickly, but with so few bodies, they probably won't last that long, and they certainly won't put out a lot of hurt. So they are pretty much only good for tying up enemies. Their other use is Daemon Delivery, since ideally they'll be around awhile AND close to the battle. As I see it, the best use for bikers, is to give them an Icon of Nurgle. This is VERY expensive points wise, but with T4(6), they'll be extremely hard to take down. So you take a medium to large squad, say 5 bikes, turbo boost them (now they have T(6) and a 3+ invulnerable), then charge along side the GD and/or LDs that hopefully show up. This'll allow the rest of your army time to catch up for the assault. This, as Yriel would call it, is a staggered blitz, and as I would call it, the only use for a bike squad.

Raptors are also expensive $ wise, but I still love these guys. 200 points'll net you 8 of them + a champ with a P. fist. Some may prefer the Lightning Claws, but I think that the P. fist adds the anti-MC and Anti-tank that the Lightning Claws don't. If you need a GD in a pinch, the champ of this squad will be the closest to the battle usually, quite often doling out powered punches If you need LDs then an Icon of Chaos Glory is a cheap beacon, as well as helping Raptors greatest weakness, IMO, their LD (which is also bikers greatest weakness). An Icon of Slaanesh is probably the next best choice because Raptors, although quite dangerous, are not the hard hitting unit of your army. They are the 1st or 2nd wave that holds down the enemy while you wait for the Termies, GD, Dread, or berzerkers. The problem they face though is that they don't last as long as bikers, so get them into assault against a non-assault unit quick as you can.

What I haven't mentioned is that both of these units make great retinues for a Lord or Sorceror. Since you'll want to get either into CC fast, they'll likely have wings/jetpack, or a bike. I'd say that if you want a retinue go with a matching squad, raptors for wings, bikers for a bike. This isn't because of aesthetic reasons, I'm far to practical for that, it's because bikers can turbo boost and raptors can't. However, raptors can walk. You may ask "why walk when you can fly?" The answer is cover. it's ok to walk through the woods with your raptors, then they don't need to make dangerous terrain checks.

So, as you can see, both units have advantages and disadvantages. They both need plans, and they both aren't the best for DPT (Damage Per Turn). These reasons though shouldn't discourage anyone from using them. The price of the models should

[crisis_vyper]

I have used Nurgle Bikers to great use in my gaming store, and I have given them an anti-big thing role. They are to boost to the nearest big target and just melta the squad to death. The variations follow on what kind of big target it is

1)Vehicles: failing Meltagunning it, I will just come in with meltabombs

2)MC: I will only melta it to death after it has been weakened significantly.

So, basically as the rest say give them a purpose and wait for the right time.

They are not really meant to assault things, but still they do okay for the assault provided that you attack a squad without any power weapon or so. However if you atach the squad of bikers to the Nurgle Biker Lod with Daemon weapon, then it will do well in CC.

But if you really want 'The' fast attack that stings hard', then I would suggest Raptors for they are very practical and also less fire magnetish than the Bikers.