[SMSlayer]

How do you think this would fair vs. a Necron army. Keep in mind I just got the codex and all the stuff yesterday...so if a few things seem idiotic bare with me =) As far as Necrons go I know all their moves etc. as I currently own a 3000pt Necron army.

HQ:
Deamon Prince w/ Demonic Stature, Armour, Aura, Speed, Essence, and a Master Crafted Power Weapon 170 pts

Troop:
10 Marines...1 w/ Missile Launcher and an Aspiring Champion with Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol 183pts

Troop:
10 Marines...1 w/ Missile Launcher 1 w/ Plasma Gun and an Aspiring Champ w/ Power Weapon and Plasma Pistol 193pts

Troop:
5 Marines...1 w/ Heavy Bolter 75pts

Elite:
10 Terminators...2 w/ combi-meltas, 1 w/ heavy flamer, and 2 w/ Reaper Autocannons 435pts

Fast Attack:
4 Bikes...1 w/ Meltagun and an Aspiring Champ 159pts

Heavy Support:
Dreadnaught w/ Twin Linked LasCannon 125pts

Heavy Support:
6 Havocs w/ 2xAutocannon and 1 Lascannon 159pts

Suggestions, hints, tactical help?

[arguleon-veq]

First as you will know. The way to defeat Crons is in combat.

I'd drop the plasma pistols and the 5 man squad, I would also drop the missile launcher from the squad without the plasma gun.

So you will now have a squad with an aspiring champ with a P.Wep. Give him deaminc strength and mutation. Also give all of his squad CC weps and pistols.

Drop the havocs auto cannons for 2 missile launchers.

Give your termies as many lightning claws as you can.

Give the champ of your bikes a power weapon.

__________________________________________________ ________________________

Keep the havocs and squad with launcher and plasma gun as your firebase and just try to get into combat ASAP with the rest of your army.

[MalVeauX]

I see a few problems, so let's go through it real easy like:

HQ:

Master crafted power weapon on a lord with stature? Redundent. He already ignores armour saves, why buy a power weapon? Master crafted? Again, why? Spiky bits does the same thing, but for less points. Other problems, you're strength and toughness are lacking. Make it hard as possible for those necrons to score wounds and you'll survive longer. I personally never bother with daemonic armour because with T6 you rarely feel wounds and anything that wounds T6 easily generally ignores your armour save anyways.

Daemon princes are the anti-thesis of Necrons. In 4th, you have serious power here. A daemon prince with stature counts as 10 models for outnumbering purposes. He also can take daemonic visage for -2 to enemy leadership. That means, so long as your enemy has 9 models or less after you whoop them in combat, they'll have to take moral checks at -3 (-1 for being outnumbered, you count as 10, and -2 or visage). So Necrons taking ld7 checks? Groovy! Whipe outs occur wonderfully here... I5 versus I2.

Example of prince that was meant to take it to the Necrons:

Chaos Lord: 160 points.
--Daemonic Stature
--Daemonic Resilience
--Daemonic Strength
--Daemonic Essense
--Daemonic Speed
--Daemonic Aura
--Daemonic Venom
--Daemonic Visage
Spiky Bits

This guy is fast and deadly. He has 4 base attacks (though if you really want to stick it to him, mark him khorne for the cheap +1 attack). He has 5 attacks on the charge, one of which is re-rollable if you miss (hitting on 3's). You will wound those necrons on 2's. Basically, you will kill 4 to 5 Necrons on that charge. They will not be able to hurt you easily at all (hitting you on a 4, wounding on a 6, only 1 attack a piece, so maybe 3 or 4 attacks, 2 hits, no wounds). That's when they are broken, and hopefully fail moral--in which case they run and you catch them real easily. If not, who cares, next round in combat, you'll do it all over again and hardly even have to roll your armour save (and again, T6 W4 and 3+ save is no joke!). Focus on attacks, and leadership attacks, and you'll waste full squads of Necrons with ease (punish that squad that has a lord in it... watch him disappear ).

Elites:

10 terminators? Well, loose the flamers. Keep your reapers and combi-meltas. I would take a single power-fist in there (or chainfist) just for backup (should they knock everything down short of the Lord or Spyder, it's nice to get a chance for some instakill goodness or just plain out wounding on 2+ against those tough guys).

Fast Attack:

4 bikes is very weak. Either buff them up or lose them. Necrons can waste this squad in a single volley of rapidfire. What's the purpose of that aspiring champion? He doesn't even have upgrades... like a powerfist or something.

Troops:

10x marines - forget the missile launcher. Take Meltas and plasma (but personally I like meltas). Give your champs daemonic strength, it's so cheap and you'll wound on 3's ignoring saves. Also, again, take daemonic visage on your champ. It's -1 to thier leadership on a single champ with a squad, and every bit helps in breaking their ld10. Don't put plasma on your champ--keep him alive as long as possible, give him daemonic mutation instead for the same points. More combat potential = more dead necrons per turn. Gotta knock em down faster (4 attacks at S5 that ignores saves is way better than a single S7 plasma shot).

That 5x heavy bolter team is going to die if he ever wants it gone. I would lose this squad and buff your bikes more. Or drop the bikes and buff this squad instead. Take big squads with the ability to stomp necrons. Taking little min/maxed squads just waste your points. Punish him good

Heavy:

Dreadnoughts are not a good idea against Necrons. Any armour is a bad idea, he'll be flayed in no time. Just for a lascannon? Not worth it. Take havocs instead with missile launchers--far more effective.

More havocs are good! But autocannons? Missile launchers will result in dead necrons. Autocannons might kill 1 or 2, and then they might get up. Give it to them strong with missiles and worry not about WWB so long as that lord isn't around the squad.

Hope that helps from the other side of the fense

[arguleon-veq]

I agree with pretty much all of that but......

I don't think things like visage are all that great against crons due to their extremely high LD, although if you do get them running you should kill them all when you run them down due to their low I.

I'm not sure about fists as your main strength in combat lies in going first (well that and weapons that ignore saves), still as MalVeauX says, one is always nice.

I'd go with his DP as well, although daemonic armour comes in really handy against destroyers and immortals, i'd take that rather than Venom and Visage.

[SMSlayer]

What if I drop the Bikes and the dreadnaught for a large (8-10) man squad of Possessed Space Marines?

[MalVeauX]

SMSlayer:

Why drop two units, for a single squad of units that die just as easily but cost the same points? Possessed are "cool" but not good against necrons. For the points, you could field something more horridly good (like a squad of blood letters) which rip through necron ranks like butter. The thing is, necrons can prey on any unit, regardless of how tough it is, because of their nasty rapidfire weapons and how fast they can deepstrike next to a target and unleash all that upon it. Numbers work better against necrons instead of quality of units. Beefy champs tear through necrons, so don't leave your power weapons and daemonic strength and daemonic mutation at home, they're worth every point.

For the points of your dreadnought and bikes, you could consider a few more chaos marine squads outfitted for close range.

Oh and by the way, daemonic venom was just there for the +1 attack for cheap (one could take 2 close combat weapons for the same effect and save 3 points, but I didn't because it looks odd on a prince's layout heh).

Daemonic visage is very cheap, especially on champs. It may seem trivial, but it actually makes necrons run. Chaos Lords with stature count as 10 models in combat. Necrons generally come in squads of 10~16. That Lord will probably kill a good amount of them. If the necron unit hits 9 models or less, they will be outnumbered in combat and will have -1 to their leadership in the moral check. On top of that, since the lord has daemonic visage, then necrons have an extra -2 to their leadership. Now, the -2 leadership brings them down to Ld8 (which is just over average). Not bad for only having to win combat. If you get the upper hand which is easy and bust a few models, you can force them down to Ld7 quite easily. Necrons fail this roll--you'd be surprised how easy it is to fail this when you really don't want to

I only offer this advise because I use it against Necrons myself. It is tried and tested. 4th edition loves visage on those I5 lords If all else, your champs get it for as cheap as a krak grenade almost! That -1 leadership can make a difference and every bit helps when you're trying to drop Necron's numbers as fast as possible.

Good luck on your battle! Let us know how it goes

[SMSlayer]

The battle isn't until this weekend...so I have some time. I'm also limited on the amount of stuff I have...the 4 bikes are all I own. I also only have enough troops for one more squad of Warriors. Since you guys are right, the dreadnaught is going to die fast I considered possessed marines. This is the army as it is redone...

Daemon Prince w/ Stature, Armour, Aura, Speed, Essence, Resilience, Visage, Spikey Bits, and Mark of Khorne (I like 2+ armour saves...shrug). 175pts.
10 Marines w/ Bolt Pistol and CCW...Aspiring Champion w/ Power Weapon, Daemonic Strength and Mutation 178pts
10 Marines w/ Bolters...2x Meltagun, Aspiring Champion, Power Weapon Strength and Mutation 198pts
10 Termies...2xCombi-Melta, 2xReaper Autocannon, and a Power Fist 425pts
10 Possessed Marines...all w/ Mark of Khorne Aspiring Champion w/ Power Weapon 345pts (Keep in mind...1 base attack...1 more for 2 CCWs, 1 more for Mark of Khorne...3 attacks * 10 = 30 + 1 attack for the Champion's extra...31 attacks NOT charging is wicked) 345points.
7 Havocs w/ Lascannon and 2xMissile Launchers. 173pts

This leaves me about 55 pts free. I am considering either a Rhino Transport w/ extra armour for my Possessed Marines (which is kinda pointless w/ their frenzy) or I can give a Lightning Claw/Power Fist to all my Termies. The other option is to drop the possessed guys for regular chaos troops (similar to the setups above) and keep the Dreadnaught armed w/ twin ACs and a Missile Launcher and add some stuff around (maybe some more havocs to sponge LR shots etc.)

I've played this kid before and he doesn't really do the most intelligent things. Necrons vs. Necrons he used the VoD to Deep Strike his Lord and 11 Warriors right in front of my entire phalanx...needless to say it died by the next turn. I've been slowly helping him w/ tactics and stuff but I'm not sure how much he's actually listened to. His army will most likely consist of 36 Warriors, 10 Flayed Ones, a Lord w/ lots of Wargear, 2 Tomb Spyders, 3 Wraiths, and 5 Destroyers. Now that you guys have a bit more info...suggestions?

[MalVeauX]

Well, I think you'll do fine as it is. He has a lot of necron units for you to burn, but you've got better combat ability. So use your points to force yourself into combat faster and you'll see the best returns.

Your possessed are expensive, so if you're to take them, I'd recommend making them a little meaner: Possessed + Mark of Khorne + Talons. Add a champ and give him a tasliman of burning blood. They way you're looking at a lot of attacks, which will always produce power hits that cannot be saved against (about 4 or 5 a turn for the whole squad). They'll run quickly too if they rage more often.

I can't help but suggest to mark your chosen termis with nurgle though... they'd simply be too good with T5 and 2+ saves against those Necrons. Just a though with some of your remaining points.

If you take your dreadnought, maybe consider a pure combat dread with 2 ccw instead and upgraded to a destroyer to rage more often and have better close combat options. It'll get burned in the shooting phase fast, but at least if it's in combat it has a chance to beat down the Necrons.

Add daemonic venom or 2 ccw to your prince, for a cheap +1 attack and you're set

[SMSlayer]

I went ahead w/ the Mark of Nurgle on my Termies and added a Talisman of Burning Blood to my Possessed Squad's Champ. I'm out of points for the Daemon Prince's CCW's though...I'll figure something out =)

Thanks for all the great advice guys, I'll let ya know how it goes.

[Akuma]

What about feel no pain and a kornate chainaxe on your DP ? I regularly play a chaos enthusiast, and he swears that feel no pain is the best thing for korn since decapitation. The axe will also boost your attacks, important if you are trying to reduce a unit below nine.... I would really recommend dropping the possessed and using a beefed up squad of blood letters, you might even want that special icon that allows you to toss out the non-scattering demon unit when ever you want. And always remember "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD !!! "