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Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?
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Old 05 May 2007, 03:50   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?

well, i was just wondering, isn't iron warriors pretty much the worst of all the chaos armies. now, do get the idea that I'm saying they suck, I'm just saying their the worst CHAOS army to pick.

Why do i say this you might ask.... well its because i read the the parts of the codex that didn't say you could get a basilisk in a chaos army. iron warriors are a squandered chaos army. they have all this potential and do nothing with it. correct me if I'm wrong, but cant chaos get more guys with S5 CC attacks than any other army. don't chaos have wondrous close combat abilities ranging from the dark blade all the way to a simple strength boost?

All of this, and iron warriors throw it away to fight like the imperium, but worse. can you cant even get an equal balance of CC and ranged in an iron warriors because if u make to much CC, its not iron warriors; if you make to much shooting, any fast CC squad/army can rip you to shreds and use your guts for garters.

firstly, the oblitorators.... 0-1 limit was actually useful and made sense. oblits are powerful, yes...but with the 0-1 limit removed, whats to stop a rookie play throwing in 9 of them who deep strike and are thusly torn apart, or at least rendered useless by CC. anyways, what would you rather have, 20 chosen with endless possibilities for wargear, or a measilly 9 oblits? or how bout some super powerful possessed??

now i know that with the choices and the right player, an iron warriors can be quite powerful, but you throw away the greatness of an incredably diverse and powerful army to get the exact same fire power as spacemarines while costing more points. yes, your vehicles are more protected with daemonic and parasitic possession, but when i go after a vehicle, it wont get a chance to use those as i make sure it dies in at least 2 rounds.

Iron warriors should not, sorry to those who play it, be in the codex. it draws too many rookie flies to it powerful fire power who don't think of anything but that fire power (i know, i was one of them; and i know one right now, isn't that right deathguard?). in addition, they shame the chaos as they do no use the beautiful array of CC abilities

o, and by the way Deathguard, no matter what army you chose you will never stand up to the awesome power of Warg'nal Da Crusher an 'is Krunk'd Speedfreekz!!! WWWWWWAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGG!!
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Old 05 May 2007, 03:56   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?

In response to your comment about the oblits: if you use them correctly and deep strike them where they will be effective and have nice LOS and ranges of fire, nothing will be moving for quite some time ^>^

As for the IWs, they are made to be a seige company. They shoot and use all the tricks of the trade to break the enemes' wills and backs at range inside of their citadel. Yes they are less oriented to CC, but they make up for it by using other, more effective tactics. Like more Heavy Support.

Do note, it is stilll cheesy to have more than 3 or 4 oblits at under than 2k pts.
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Old 05 May 2007, 04:10   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?

Erhm Iron warriors are just as good as the other undivided factions in CC...
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Old 05 May 2007, 06:32   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?

They have a very distinctive color in so far as Chaos goes, too. I definitely wouldn't flip out and take a bunch of Obliterators, but you've still got the rock-solid performing standard CSM list that can now be supported by the heaviest tanks in the game. I would even say the other side of the coin proposed would be a guy taking 4 Basilisks to just rain artillery every turn, supported by some staunch troops. Fits the fluff too.
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Old 05 May 2007, 06:59   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?

Iron warriors suck? But they don't and so what if they don't use CC i mean the Thousand sons aren't good at CC are they? So shut up about Iron warriors and What makes other armies better hmmmm? Like the Night lords get as many Raptors as they want don't they? Or the Alpha legion get cultists.So the Iron warriors are just like them other armies that let you field more of one type of unit.
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Old 05 May 2007, 14:59   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?

Heya,

I think what he is saying is that he doesn't think IronWarriors fits the global theme of the codex, where assault is readily available via lots of combat weapon and STR buffs, speed, etc, including daemons and other such things; meanwhile, the IronWarriors focus on guns and don't bother with daemons so much nor assault units, etc.

To the notion, I just want to point this out: Codex: Chaos Space Marines. Notice it's not just Forces of Chaos, or Chaos. It's Chaos Space Marines. The make up less than a fraction of a fraction of a percent of what Chaos is. But it would be near impossible for GW to release a Chaos codex based on the real cults (the true and most prevalent form of Chaos on our plane). So instead, they gave us a codex full of non-loyalist marines. And in that sense, IronWarriors definitely belong. They're the old school armored marines who don't listen to the pomp and circumstance of the Imperium. They certainly are a huge presence in Chaos Space Marines. They're not just always hanging out on their planet in the Eye of Terror, mutating. They're busy laying siege and fighting. It's what they do. If anything, they're probably one of the best examples of what was supposed to be in this codex (while we scamper to abuse the melee upgrades ever since 3rd edition).

Cheers,
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Old 05 May 2007, 22:00   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?

To start things off....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Locky
Erhm Iron warriors are just as good as the other undivided factions in CC...
No they are not!!!!
If they were, they wouldn't be iron warriors!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Immortal Black Mage
In response to your comment about the oblits: if you use them correctly and deep strike them where they will be effective and have nice LOS and ranges of fire, nothing will be moving for quite some time ^>^
Nothing? what about another deepstriking assult squad, or a large squad of fast moving gaunts, or how bout ork stormboys who turn their much needed high save into...well..scrap metal (since I'm not allowed profanity) see, like i said, quite over rated, over used, and not too difficult to remove. like a splinter in then back of you hand, its annoying, but only requires tweezers to fix.

Now, what I'm seeing here is that a lot of you seem to think that i think iron warriors suck. well i know they don't suck, when use right they can be damned good. I just think the other chaos armies are all better, by far. ( BTW look at the title: "worst possible chaos choice" see- CHAOS CHOICE---CHAOS )

Now i know GW has to include them because of fluff and such, but you might as well play imperium because even the simplest imperium army could crack iron warriors with ease. yaya you can use a basilisk, but it is overrated. its weak armour and high tendency to die to even the weakest fire makes it a liability in smaller games. yes a know it has a good gun with the best range, but it becomes useless in smaller games, like 1000p.

Also, they completely get rid of daemons. Why on all of mork and gorks dust ravaged earth would you CHOOSE to do that? Daemons are what make chaos chaos. Yes they are unstable outside the warp, but that is why you summon them onto the enemy and let them run wild, removing all infantry from puny guardsmen all the way up to proud space marines. and greater daemons can crush a defensive line with ease. and iron warriors give up all of that for a pie plate and some oblits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackal
What makes other armies better hmmmm? Like the Night lords get as many Raptors as they want don't they? Or the Alpha legion get cultists.So the Iron warriors are just like them other armies that let you field more of one type of unit.
Well..... Raptors are actually useful, although very expensive (no I'm not complaining, they need to be that expensive to balance out the chaos force). Into a raptor squadron, you can throw 3 meltagun and a powerfist. Thats deadly!!!! (unless your like deathguad and miss all 3 melta shots and all 4 powerfist hits against a lieutenant...hehe lol) combine that with hit and run, you now have a formidable squad capable of ripping though man and metal alike. now cultists do not suck because they offer a cheap troop choice. in addition, they infiltrate and can have furious charge. In a 20 man squad, thats 60 S4 I4 attacks! you can also toolthem up with melta bombs. 20 guys with meltabombs infiltrating is quite frightening to ANYONE who has tanks. you may stop 10, or even 15 in a round of shooting but thats still 5 melta bombs on a tank. if they stay in cover they block off pathways your tanks can take because of their anti-tank capabilities. lastly, they can be tooled up with an icon to summon daemons. 3 squads infiltrating with icons, summoning 3 squads of furies onto the board on turn 2 or 3 can really mess up anyones battle plan.

and if you want to know about how much better other armires are than the iron warriors, just read the codex!!!!!! there are plenty of much better things in there

to sum up, cauze I've been ranting here for a while, I'm not saying the iron warriors are a horrible army, i just saying that the other armies are phenomenally better. Iron warriors players, read the codex again and ask yourself "why am i choosing to give up all of this for a basilisk, vindicator and a couple of oblits???"


--------------------END OF RANT--------------------
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Old 05 May 2007, 22:38   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blade_masda
to sum up, cauze I've been ranting here for a while, I'm not saying the iron warriors are a horrible army, i just saying that the other armies are phenomenally better. Iron warriors players, read the codex again and ask yourself "why am i choosing to give up all of this for a basilisk, vindicator and a couple of oblits???"
Heya,

I couldn't disagree with you more. The cults and legions all have their power levels, and Iron Warriors happens to have a very high power level by comparison, especially in 4th edition. The overall push to shooting in 4th made Iron Warriors really relish their weapon access level, while the more combat oriented cults & legions really didn't gain anything. They're still very good mind you, but Iron Warriors are a very good choice for the competitive player to choose. They are without the fat of upgrades and marks, and instead, give you valuable options such as a 4th heavy at no loss to your army, and increased Obliterator access (which isn't used to get extra Obliterators, it's used to spread the Obliterators out into individual single model scoring units). It's completely competitive, scoring and without the fat that many Chaos players come to love to fill their lists with--upgrades.

Khorne is at a complete disadvantage in 4th edition and do not even compete with Iron Warriors at any level.
Tzeentch might as well not exist, frankly. They don't even come close to anything compared to Iron Warriors.
Slaneesh competes nicely with IronWarriors, very shooty, great in assault. The drawback is less models and higher cost.
Nurgle has a good resilience factor, but loses a lot of shooting and only fairs normal in assault. Advantage is all I.W.
Alpha Legion competes with IronWarriors, with the same weapon access; I.W. will have more guns likely. I.W. advantage.
Night Lords competes with I.W., but they too can only bring as much firepower and less, than I.W. Assault is the same.
Word Bearers competes very well with I.W., because they have access to the same guns, and still have room for summons.

Slaneesh & Word Bearers are the only two cult/legions in the Codex that compete on with IronWarriors in 4th edition.

We can all talk about opinions and clammer on about what we think it should be, but the plain fact of the matter is what actually works in tournaments around the world, and what doesn't. Funnily enough, the majority are the three I've listed: Iron Warriors, Slaneesh and Word Bearers.

Cheers,
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Old 06 May 2007, 14:23   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?

no body really takes alot of chaos fast attack cause GW slugs you an arm and leg for most of the CSM fast attack options, I can really say iron warriors lack anything word bearers get excepting bloodletters and daemonettes, they still get possessed chaos marines, thier squad of normal chaos marines can still take bolt pistols and furious charge, and thier lords and champions get access to daemon weapons, daemonic gifts, and any veteran skills, and they get seige experts free.
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Old 14 May 2007, 00:56   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Iron Warriors.....worst possible chaos choice?

I want to disagree with something Mal said. I personally think the Mark of Nurgle is superior to the Mark of Slaanesh. It gives you bonuses in both shooting and close combat (T5, and true grit) and unlike with Slaanesh you don't have to pay extra for sonic blasters which aren't really worth it.

Of course, pure Nurgle armies are kinda limited, but I play Black Legion with two squads of plague marines.
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