Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

1700 Lost and the Damned - Tournament
Reply
Old 14 Mar 2007, 14:08   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,096
Default 1700 Lost and the Damned - Tournament

On Saturday (St. Patrick's day, woo!) I'm going to a tournament with my friend. I'll be brining my silly silly mech tau and he's bringing a shambling horde of Lost and the Damned. Here's his list at the moment, I was wondering what people though of it and if they had any advice.

I think it looks good, the only thing that concerns me is its lack of speed at the moment. Please give constructive criticism. Mal if you've got some time a bit of feedback would be great!

1700 Pts - Lost and the Damned Roster - Unnamed

HQ:

Daemon Prince of Nurgle w/ Mark of Nurgle, Daemonic Rune, Daemonic Strength, Manreaper, Terminator Armour, Nurgle's Rot
170

Elite:

Plague Marines

5 Plague Marines w/combat weapon (x5); Bolter (x3); Plasma Gun (x2), mark of nurgle,
Aspiring champion w/ mark of nurgle, daemonic mutation, plague sword, spiky bitz, nurgles rot
Rhino w/ extra armour, smoke launchers
245

Troops

21 Plague zombies w/ aspiring champion, mark of nurgle, close combat weapon, power weapon
236


21 Plague zombies w/ aspiring champion, mark of nurgle, close combat weapon, power weapon
236

5 Traitors w/ lascannon
60

5 Traitors w/ lascannon
60

5 Traitors w/ lascannon
60

5 Traitors w/ lascannon
60

Fast Attack

Hellhound w/ extra armour, pintle heavy stubber, smoke launchers, inferno cannon, hull heavy bolter
135

Heavy Support

Basilisk w/ earthshaker cannon, improved comms, hull heavy bolter, indirect fire
145

Basilisk w/ earthshaker cannon, improved comms, hull heavy bolter, indirect fire
145

Leman Russ w/ hull heavy bolter, heavy bolter sponsons, battle cannon, extra armour
160

Total Roster Cost: 1692
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliodorus04
Falstead, you're a genius!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer_Emlyn
Gah! Not a silly Canadian. Can't Falstead ever be wrong?!?!? ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafe (Autarch Kiardras)
My god.... the sarcasm there nearly shorted out my computer screen Nice.
Falstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 Mar 2007, 14:27   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alachua, Florida
Posts: 8,647
Send a message via MSN to MalVeauX
Default Re: 1700 Lost and the Damned - Tournament

Heya,

Overall a decent list. But it will not perform well in scenarios at all. The problem is mobility and it's extremely lacking nature against vehicles. Those lascannons will not do the job at 1700. Some points to consider:

1 - The Lord is basically a waste of points. Slow, Terminator, good in melee, but never will see melee. And he's totally useless unless he's in melee. Way too easy to shoot down. And he cannot join a unit and ride in a Rhino--Rhinos don't allow models in Termi armor to be transported. I would drop this model entirely. Otherwise, I suggest the same Lord be built, without the Termi armor and without the Rune. Instead, with Flight and Aura.

2 - Nearly a Land Raider's cost for 6 Marines in a Rhino. That's pretty bad, considering this Rhino will not even see the light of turn two. It's going to be totally scrapped. Anything that can't harm the Russ/Hound, will rip into this Rhino. I know I'd be killing that Rhino before shooting at a limited ranged Hellhound. And the Russ can have LOS denied. That Rhino is going to be a target unless the players are just wishywashy. These marines will need to walk in order to avoid entanglement and the Rhino simply serves as mobile terrain to block LOS to things early on. He could instead increase the Plague Marine count by a lot, and simply infiltrate them. When taking mechanized units, it's a lot better to get a few others in there as well. As it is, this is a sore thumb in the middle of a lot of hammers. If nothing else, seriously increase the squad size of them. They're not following a sacred number, so might as well make the most of the Elite slot and get more Marines here.

3 - Plague Zombies are fun and fluffy. Unfortunately they're basically rotten. I must ask though, are they plague zombies for real, or just mutants with the blessing? Because plague zombies move in difficult terrain, always, and are fearless. If these are taken, this is bad. They will never see assault, never do anything at all except get pounded by templates/guns, and never even get far enough into a board to take an objective or do anything beyond existing and taking up 200+ points. They will be moving slower than standard movement. When you play a game of 6 turns and all you got was a total of 12~20 inches of movement the whole game, that's a serious problem. If nothing else, make them normal mutants with the blessing. Overall--lose the blessings. Take way more mutants. Mutants need to move, need to be numerous. Upgraded mutants are really not worth their points and the slow zombies are way too easily punished and do nothing in the game really. And when you have a L10 champion, fearless is hardly something worth losing all your movement to get.

4 - Min Traitors with lascannons work. They're worthless to shoot, worthless at shooting and only Ld6 to boot, so they may even shoot the wrong target more often than not with bad target priority tests. But they're needed to get access to the tanks. I would at least put them at 6 models strong if at all possible, for scoring purposes. Overall, they're terrible for the points, but again, no choice if he wants tanks.

5 - The HellHound is good to have.

6 - HeavySupport is all good.

--- I would really get more mutants, less upgrades here. The HQ and Troop1&2 alone are not worth the points and suck up over 600 points from this list in a slow, rather poor mess of models. Not to be harsh about it, but this is a tournament--so that's the perspective I'm giving notes from.

Cheers,
__________________
[table][tr][td][/td][td][table][tr][td] [/td][td]Apocalypse is the only way to forty-kay.[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]
MalVeauX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 Mar 2007, 14:35   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,096
Default Re: 1700 Lost and the Damned - Tournament

Thanks for the tips Mal.

I've tried to convince him to take a speedier lord, but unfortunately he's limited by what models he has available (despite being a redshirt, go figure :)

He's probably using the Typhus mini for his lord. I think his current plan is to deepstrike him down. While the Lord won't actually see combat this way he can break up a gunline fairly efficiently as shooty units scramble to get 12" away from him.

The big risk is if he drop within rapid fire range of a few plasma guns he's probably toast...

The plauge zombies actually do surprisingly well. My friend seems to be able to roll 6's for difficult terrain like no ones business, and having big toughness 4 fearless mobs with a 4+ save is a real pain. I think part of his plan is to use these as a "net". They push forward into the middle of the board.

If the opponent moves forward to get within 36" of the indirect fire bassilisks he's move towards the shambling mutants. If he hangs back to avoid the mutants he's being shelled by artillery...

In the original version of the list the plague marines were indeed infiltrating. I think the rhino was actually my idea, I was trying to get another piece of armour in there. Because the more armour you have the harder it is to take out. Though I guess the rhino only barely does count as armour. Perhaps it should be dropped in favour of more marines, and giving the aspiring champion a teleport homer? This could bring the lord down fairly accurately.

Alternatively what about making the Lord into a "Torpedo?" That could probably help this list a lot? Any recommended configurations or advice on how to fit a torpedo lord into this list?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliodorus04
Falstead, you're a genius!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer_Emlyn
Gah! Not a silly Canadian. Can't Falstead ever be wrong?!?!? ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafe (Autarch Kiardras)
My god.... the sarcasm there nearly shorted out my computer screen Nice.
Falstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 Mar 2007, 16:25   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alachua, Florida
Posts: 8,647
Send a message via MSN to MalVeauX
Default Re: 1700 Lost and the Damned - Tournament

Heya,

I wouldn't take a Torpedo in this list. They need big fire support, or fast moving combat support. This list will lack both. So the Lord will be singled out and taken out way too quickly to be worth the cost. However, a humble Lord on a bike would be better than this Terminator Lord. It just may look odd.

The problem is, regardless of his luck in rolling 6's in movement, he's not gaining anything through this. Mutants move 6", Plague Zombies move 1~6". They both have the blessing of nurgle for the 4+ save (which is a waste, honestly). They both have T4. One is fearless and moves less than 6". One is Ld10 and moves 6" as often as possible. There is a critical difference here and the favor is not with the plauge zombies. If nothing else, tell him to just treat them as normal mutants, blessed with nurgle. He keeps everything the same as if they were zombies. The only difference will be that they're Ld10 (not fearless, but close enough!) and they can actually move normal. That's nothing but advantage to him here.

Adding A11 one time to a list doesn't add to the armor. It can be used tactically to shield another vehicle, for one turn, but that's about it. With that many models, it's going to be hard to place it well. Doing this, I would suggest rather trying to get two troop based marine squads in Rhinos, unmarked, instead. More bodies, more guns, more armor. The problem with the homer is that it won't help much. Those marines are not going to be much closer than an aspiring champ from the mutants will be. That termi lord is just a total hindrance no matter what he does in the end. If he wants to keep the Termi character, he should drop every upgrade except for the reaper & termi armor. Keep him as cheap as possible and just use ind. character status to preserve him. At least that way, he will only border the 100'ish point zone, instead of nearly 200--for the same thing basically.

Cheers,
__________________
[table][tr][td][/td][td][table][tr][td] [/td][td]Apocalypse is the only way to forty-kay.[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]
MalVeauX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 Mar 2007, 18:25   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 105
Default Re: 1700 Lost and the Damned - Tournament

I think y'all might be forgetting something; the plauge marines are troops. In the chaos marine codex it says only an army led by something with MoCU counts marked as elites. Tell me if I'm missing something inbetween the lines, though,
super spallard!11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14 Mar 2007, 18:50   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,096
Default Re: 1700 Lost and the Damned - Tournament

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAN!
I think y'all might be forgetting something; the plauge marines are troops. In the chaos marine codex it says only an army led by something with MoCU counts marked as elites. Tell me if I'm missing something inbetween the lines, though,
You're missing something between the lines.

This is a Lost and the Damned army. They use a different organization. Any unit that has a mark is an elite choice.

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by heliodorus04
Falstead, you're a genius!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer_Emlyn
Gah! Not a silly Canadian. Can't Falstead ever be wrong?!?!? ;D
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafe (Autarch Kiardras)
My god.... the sarcasm there nearly shorted out my computer screen Nice.
Falstead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15 Mar 2007, 03:58   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Adelaide, South Australia
Posts: 683
Send a message via MSN to 33rd Sirican Redbacks
Default Re: 1700 Lost and the Damned - Tournament

You can take unmarked CSM with lascannons they are much better, as long as your not taking death guard allies and are only taking a lord with MON you cant take 2 squads of CSM
__________________
33rd Sirican Redbacks is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
lost and the damned help. inuyasha1162 Conversion 2 12 Sep 2007 14:04
Who are The Lost and The Damned Aun Forces of Chaos 9 18 Feb 2007 19:23
Lost and the Damned Subzero Forces of Chaos 1 14 Aug 2005 19:04
1850 Point Lost and the Damned Grand Tournament List "The Daughters of Chaos" Doctor Thunder Forces of Chaos 13 15 Jul 2005 01:16
Lost and the damned? ShadowDeth Forces of Chaos 19 02 Apr 2005 03:45