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Against space marines
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Old 05 Jan 2006, 14:36   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Against space marines

well, a friend of mine has a space marine army with:
2 tactical squads (1 member of each squad with a flamer and another with a rocket launcher)
1 librarian
1 assault squad(only close quarter fighting)
1 standart land speeder
1 predator annihalator

I have
HQ:chaos lord(with black sword, plasma pistol, daemon fire, spiky bits and daemon strength)
Troops:
1 squad(1aspiring champion with power fist, 2 with plasma pistols and close combat weapons, and 5 with bolt pistols and close combat weapons) they all have furious charge.
1squad(1aspiring champion with power fist, 2 with plasma guns and close combat weapons and 5 with bolt pistols and close combat weapons)they all have furious charge
1 squad(aspiring champion with power sword, 5 members with bolters and close combat weapons, 1 with plasma gun and the last with a heavy bolter)
Heavy support:
1 dreadnought(plasma cannon or autocannon, power fist, dirge caster and havoc launcher)
1 land raider(extra-armor and with a mounted combibolter)

My tactic is to use my land raider and dreadnought as a shield for my troops as he dos not have anything that powerfull and when I get to assault his army, it'll be butt kicking time.
So, any opinions?
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Old 05 Jan 2006, 17:47   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Against space marines

Tripod:

I think you'll hand him his butt on a goopy choatic brass platter (second hand no less).

Overall, here's what I think though:

HQ - I would drop daemonic fire and daemonic strength, they do not help him and cost a lot together. With these saved points, buy daemonic speed. He now will hit combat very soon instead of in the middle of the game. Drop the plasma. You do realise that plasma and daemonic fire do not fire together? It's one or the other and both are not good choices on your lord. If you must keep one, keep daemonic fire and drop the plasma and buy a CCW or Bolt Pistol instead. Also, you should probably have an invulnerable save on such a kitted lord. He could go squish against a Libby or loose rocket.

Troop1 - Perfect squad. Though I'd drop furious charge. It's too expensive. If you want a vet skill, buy counter attack and move through cover. They're very useful when ducking cover, moving in terrain and being assaulted by faster assault troops (like jump pack troops) and will allow you to get your fist in range to beat down his whole squad every single time (or libby!).

Troop2 - See above. Note, you have plasma guns, you will not be assaulting if you fire them, so furious charge is pretty useless here, or the plasma is useless. Not good eh? Pistols and furious charge can work, but not plasma guns.

Troop3 - Kitting out a squad for shooting with plasma and a heavy bolter isn't going to do much for you, especially with a kitted combat champion. I would highly recommend you either drop the heavy bolter and take another plasmagun, or instead, consider a havoc team with 2 heavy bolters so that they can do some serious dakka and full range and not have to waste shots at long/short range conflicts between your weapons and not waste shots against vehicles, infantry, etc.

Heavy1 - The plasmacannon on a dreadnought truly is the worst option in my opinion. It's expensive and blast template weapons in 4th edition don't work well. You have to place it with the tiny hole centered over one model, then any one else partially under the template is hit on a 4+, almost never will you have more than one automatic hit and the partials are very hit or miss if you even get 1 or 2 of them, because even a squad with one inch spacing in coherency will avoid that template. Essentially you're paying to kill one marine model, with one shot. Might as well use something else that can also bust tanks right? I'd recommend that autocannon and a missile launcher instead. You don't need a dirge caster - your troops are all Ld10 already... they don't need to be fearless (even against Fear of the Darkness). Also, the havoc launcher on the dreadnought is a cool idea, but it's better fielded on your land raider, where it won't be destroyed so quickly and it can be fired on the move - dreadnoughts may only fire 2 weapons, no matter what. Your dreadnought with an autocannon/missile launcher upgrade is great and you could even mutate the hull to give him a headache.

Heavy2 - Landraiders are strange in Chaos, but if you like it, take it. Here's where I'd put that havoc launcher. Then you have plenty of firepower coming from it while moving and keeping your troops safe in the shadow. Remember that troops take 4+ cover saves from vehicles... so hug the corners well.

Cheers!
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Old 05 Jan 2006, 20:59   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Against space marines

Thank you for your opinion MalVeauX
I have iet another question, when squad 1 enters hand-to-hand combat, how many attack bonuses do they get?
And by the way, my dreadnought has a power fist and a twinlinked autocannon, I couldn't find the missile launcher(should I turn the havoc launcher into one)
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Old 05 Jan 2006, 21:09   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Against space marines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod the 5
Thank you for your opinion MalVeauX
I have iet another question, when squad 1 enters hand-to-hand combat, how many attack bonuses do they get?
And by the way, my dreadnought has a power fist and a twinlinked autocannon, I couldn't find the missile launcher(should I turn the havoc launcher into one)
Heya

When a squad enters close combat, it depends how they entered:

1 - If they were charged by the enemy, they only receive their normal base attacks (ie: no bonuses). The only extra attacks you are granted, are based on if you have two close combat weapons or not (but this is a constant at all times anyways).

2 - If you charge your opponent, each charging model gains a bonus of +1 attack (unless something prevents this, such as Photon grenades, etc). This is in addition to your bonus attack if you have two close combat weapons.

3 - If consolidating or being locked in combat from another means, there's no charge bonus.

So for example, if you have a marine squad of 8 with all bolters and they rapid-fire, they will not be allowed to assault that turn. If your opponent charges them, they will all only have a single attack as par their profile because they lacked two close combat weapons and were not charging.

On the other hand, if your marine squad of 8 had close combat weapons and bolt pistols (two close combat weapons) and charged into combat, they would each have 3 attacks on the charge: (1) for the base profile, (1) for having two close combat weapons and (1) for charging into combat.

--- If your dreadnought has a twin-linked autocannon and Power Fist, that's fine. He also has a combi-bolter, but that 24 inch range is pretty poor compared to the Autocannon. You could use the Havoc Launcher to convert it into a missile launcher, but it might be odd since Havoc Launchers elseware in your army will look the same. I'd just keep your power fist for now, and simply not glue it. Perhaps wait until you get ahold of something that you can use (such as a missile launcher from a guardsmen or marine or something; or even just converting one from a hollow tube or something, a pipe from your local hardware store, etc).

Cheers!
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Old 06 Jan 2006, 11:02   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Against space marines

Thanks.
I've been thinking, how about demonic flight on the lord.
And my fire support squad (A.K.A: squad 3) should get move threw cover so that they can get into good location to fire there weapon as to distract my opponent from my close combat squads.

p.S. Should I make the land raider combibolter into a combimelta.
And are granads that good advantage.
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Old 06 Jan 2006, 12:30   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Against space marines

Go get em'
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Old 06 Jan 2006, 12:49   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Against space marines

just a thought- maybe take demonic possession on your LR instead of the havoc launcher? that would make it a true monster! And then you should drop the extra armor.
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Old 06 Jan 2006, 14:41   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Against space marines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tripod the 5
Thanks.
I've been thinking, how about demonic flight on the lord.
And my fire support squad (A.K.A: squad 3) should get move threw cover so that they can get into good location to fire there weapon as to distract my opponent from my close combat squads.

p.S. Should I make the land raider combibolter into a combimelta.
And are granads that good advantage.
Flight or Speed is a smart idea. You definitely want your expensive power house to move faster. I prefer speed coupled with infiltration, but flight works very well too.

I would advise you to never upgrade combi-bolters to combi-meltas. It's a single chance and a very poor one at that. You've already invested a seriously large chunk of points into that single vehicle. Adding more and more just makes it worse and worse if it blows up. And in 4th edition, tanks do blow up easier. I would advise you to never upgrade much at all on your land raider, except for extra armor and smokes. The only exception would be the havoc launcher to sit and fire even more, but even then, that's pushing it too high on the points.

Grenades (kraks) are generally never worth it. GW has made a very strong point to eliminate their usefulness in almost all situations with low strength and very little chances to even be used. Frag grenades on the other hand, are very useful for teams that you know you will be assaulting with. It helps in cover and they're cheap, so they're a very good option to have on moving teams.

Cheers!
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Old 06 Jan 2006, 14:43   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Against space marines

Quote:
HQ:chaos lord(with black sword, plasma pistol, daemon fire, spiky bits and daemon strength)
drop the fire and strength and get resilience instead. Looks good otherwise.

Quote:
1 squad(1aspiring champion with power fist, 2 with plasma pistols and close combat weapons, and 5 with bolt pistols and close combat weapons) they all have furious charge.
good outfitting. Do they have any marks?

Quote:
1squad(1aspiring champion with power fist, 2 with plasma guns and close combat weapons and 5 with bolt pistols and close combat weapons)they all have furious charge
I wouldn't bother with furious charge here. Maybe give them infiltrate instead to force the enemy to choose between shooting and your main advance.

Quote:
1 squad(aspiring champion with power sword, 5 members with bolters and close combat weapons, 1 with plasma gun and the last with a heavy bolter)
Ok if you're going to use them as fire support and sit back and shoot, drop the champion as with the rest of the list, they'll more than likely never see combat.

Quote:
1 dreadnought(plasma cannon or autocannon, power fist, dirge caster and havoc launcher)
With the way the rest of your army is, go with the autocannon as you need the tank hunting. More than likely the enemys AT fire will go at the LR and allow your dread to advance unmolested. You could drop the havoc launcher and the CC arm to get a missile launcher and you probably don't need the dirge caster.

Quote:
1 land raider(extra-armor and with a mounted combibolter)
Pretty beefy target for a small game. Expect this to take all the hits for you. I'd be tempted to say just mount up the CC squad and the lord and burn the LR forward first turn, assault out of it second turn and then use its shooting the rest of the game. And drop the combi-bolter and get some smokes. If you're too wary of stuff being inside the LR, give your lord flight or speed and run him up behind it.

Looking at his list, the predator annihilator will be your biggest worry. If that gets a bit lucky, your LR will be dead and you're stuck trudging across the battlefield against a firing line. I'm almost tempted to say take a small meltagun squad and infiltrate it and try and kill the predator with them instead of the plasma squad. Other than the predator it doesn't look too challenging. 10 man squads devoted entirely to shooting are too unwieldy and bulky to be of great use.
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Old 06 Jan 2006, 15:01   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Against space marines

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeH
just a thought- maybe take demonic possession on your LR instead of the havoc launcher? that would make it a true monster! And then you should drop the extra armor.
Problem with that: it can no longer transport stuff and the main purpose of the raider is to get stuff into assault (as it's the only closed-top vehicle one can directly assault from).
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