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How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?
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Old 29 Nov 2005, 00:31   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 840
Default How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?

I decided to try doing a chaos undivided list that is very veterany/ a low model count with a lot of power, so please tell me how it looks.

HQ:

Deamon Prince - 160pts.
-Deamon Armour
-Deamonic Aura
-Deamonic Essence
-Deamonic Stature
-Deamonic Speed
-Deamonic Talons

ELITE:

1 group of 3 Obliterator- 210pts.

2 groups of 5 chosen terminators- 360pts.
-1 with reaper autocannon

TROOPS:

2 groups of 6 chaos space marines- 206pts.
-missile launcher
-1 group with tankhunters

1 group of 6 chaos space marine- 117pts.
-lascannon
-tank hunters

1 group of 10 chaos space marine- 218pts.
-bolt pistol / close combat weapon
-rhino troop transport
-aspiring champion w/ power fist

FAST ATTACK:

1 group of 10 chaos raptors- 320pts.
-all models have furious charge

HEAVY SUPPORT:

Land Raider- 250pts.

TOTAL: 1841pts.

Please rate and fix this army.

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space marines- 500pts.
tyranids- 200pts. (battle for mccrage )
Lost and the damned- 300pts. (just started)

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Old 29 Nov 2005, 01:05   #2 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?

Killa:

You know, at first I was expecting to see a bunch of really powerful veteran based squads with really pumped champs with lots of sick weapons and upgrades throughout in 1850 points because there's a lot of room for that stuff. Instead, actually the army has few several models, but they're actually under-powered for what they are and can do. Meaning, you could make them more elite, more powerful, if that's your goal.

Soft points:

1 - Most of your units are thing; not very tough; easy to remove.
2 - Mose of these units don't hit very hard. Some are decent, but others are lacking. Inconsistency really.

Hard points:

1 - Good mobility.
2 - Generally good unit choice; but amounts and setups of each are a bit off.

I'll go through it a bit with you:

Quote:
HQ:

Deamon Prince - 160pts.
-Deamon Armour
-Deamonic Aura
-Deamonic Essence
-Deamonic Stature
-Deamonic Speed
-Deamonic Talons
This lord isn't bad, but really, I would recommend a change. He's S5 and T5. Statured lords with T5 are not more resilient than a plague marine. They can still be overwhelmbed by lots of different kinds of weapons. However, at T6, they start becoming (1) very tough against all small arms fire, so you don't even roll your armor save against them at all, making you not even need one, and (2) making very extremely difficult to wound in combat, even more difficult than the shooting phase for most armies, which also means, less rolling of armor saves on your part. As for his offensive capabilities, he's ok with 4 base attacks. He hits on 3's and wound's things on 3's and 2's depending on what they are. Personally I'd opt for strength here, to always keep it a 2+ and make every single attack count. Talons is cool, but really, on a lord that already ignores armor saves, it's not extremely useful. Also, talons shines when you have loads of attacks, not just 4. Talons is better left for units with lots of models (like possessed and daemonttes, where the number of rolls is much higher). Venom adds the bonus attack for cheaper and still offers an extra ability and is cheaper. By the way, the points are off... this setup you listed isn't 160 points, it's 150.

Consider this then:

Chaos Lord
-Daemonic Stature
-Daemonic Resilience
-Daemonic Strength
-Daemonic Aura
-Daemonic Essence
-Daemonic Speed
-Daemonic Venom

145 points base.
From here - you could add something else, like (1) daemonic mutation for a 5th attack, or spiky bitz for a re-roll (essentially like having another attack). He's actually more durable and will have more offensive capability in the long run.

Quote:
ELITE:

1 group of 3 Obliterator- 210pts.
Not a bad selection, but personally I'd recommend dropping down to 2 Obliterators. But overall nothing wrong with this choice (it's just too many points in one place makes them too attractive of an anti-tank weapon target).

Quote:
2 groups of 5 chosen terminators- 360pts.
-1 with reaper autocannon
There's actually not much very powerful of having 10 Terminators. Without champions, they're just not that potent. The reaper autocannon is nice to have, but the squad isn't worth it. How will you deploy them? If they're walking, they'll be out of action for a long while and that's a waste of their power weapons. The weapons that fire long range that will hit them, will probably ignore their armor too (like lascannons). But really, your opponent can ignore them as they move 6 inches a turn with 24 inch guns until they finally get close enough for combat, in which case, they're in range of plasma weapons too. Not good. If they teleport, they may have a better effect against the enemy, but in that situation they're more of a deterant, a decoy, rather than a power unit(s). I would drop down to one unit of chosen personally, and I wouldn't take Terminators. Chaos Terminators aren't as strong as Chaos Champions - so it depends how crazy and how powerful you want to get. You could take 6 chosen champs, rigged with vet skills, power weapons, strength, speed, etc, and basically have the power of your HQ across 6 models, right into combat on first turn. That's some elite craziness that only chaos can pull off.

Quote:
2 groups of 6 chaos space marines- 206pts.
-missile launcher
-1 group with tankhunters
They're fine; but 6 marines, 1 gun, and one veteran skill isn't that elite or veteraned up. Also, missile launchers are versatile and will punch armor decently, but will not punch through terminator type armors. That makes it an odd weapon unless you're just shooting a single marine. I would recommend an autocannon with tank hunters instead, with a plasmagun. Or a lascannon and plasma gun. Then you have (autocannon&plasma) massed shots, and S8 versus tanks, good for both anti-infantry or tank, or just per low ap (lascannon&plasma). I would also purchase infiltration for them. Why not infiltrate and punch a tank? That way you get a good chance for perfect line of sight on your target of choice.

Quote:
1 group of 6 chaos space marine- 117pts.
-lascannon
-tank hunters
The same thing as above essentially. As it is, you have 3 troops that can hunt a tank in 1850 points, which may not be enough if your opponent likes armor as well. Plus, they might get killed, so it's good to have backup.

Quote:
1 group of 10 chaos space marine- 218pts.
-bolt pistol / close combat weapon
-rhino troop transport
-aspiring champion w/ power fist
This is a good squad. However, why don't they have some weapons? Why not a meltagun and flamer perhaps? That will give them a little flexibility. In case you don't run off to assault, you could also drive by and flame, or drive up and put a melta into a tank. Or jump into assault right after burning and melting a unit of infantry. Also, why not grant your champion daemonic mutation or something? More attacks is great. Then they'll be all elite and pumped like you want.

Quote:
FAST ATTACK:

1 group of 10 chaos raptors- 320pts.
-all models have furious charge
Have you ever used Raptors? They're great fun. They're also great big targets. 10 of them is a lot. Most opponents will see this unit, starting off in deployment zone, and think... "Oh those guys cost a lot... " and shoot them. Of those 10 models, how many do you think will be able to fly forward, avoid damage, and make it to combat, where furious charge kicks in? Also, there's no champion? No special weapons? Plasma pistols could be useful for example. Overall - raptors were built for infiltration, they love it, they need it. Then you're right up on the enemy, or in cover near by, ready to get them. I would trade charge for infiltration, and take plasma pistols or take a flamer or meltaguns. Then you can shoot and assault. I'd take a champion too, with a power weapon and daemonic strength. Then they'll be potent and worth the large price tag for very few models and be much more elite and powerful as you wanted.

Quote:
Land Raider- 250pts.
Just out of curiosity, what will this land raider transport? Also, what will it be doing? As the only piece of armor aside from a rhino, it's a pretty big target to be shot down by tank weapons. The twin-linked lascannons are useful, for a tank hunting aspect, but really that's a huge expensive for two lascannons. I would take a Predator in it's place, with more lascannons, cheaper and with less of a price tag.

Really though, I wouldn't even take a tank. I would stick to infiltrating elite squads with big ugly guns. Havocs come to mind. Otherwise, MORE troops as you already have.

Cheers!
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Old 29 Nov 2005, 02:09   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?

When I first looked at the chaos space marine codex, I saw a lot of potential for some crazy elite armies, but I just realized that this isn't the type of army that I want to field. Thanks for all of the advice, I will probably have another chaos army up in a day or so. sorry for abandoning this list after all the help you gave :-\ .
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tyranids- 200pts. (battle for mccrage )
Lost and the damned- 300pts. (just started)

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Old 29 Nov 2005, 03:28   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLAELITE132
When I first looked at the chaos space marine codex, I saw a lot of potential for some crazy elite armies, but I just realized that this isn't the type of army that I want to field. Thanks for all of the advice, I will probably have another chaos army up in a day or so. sorry for abandoning this list after all the help you gave :-\ .
No problem at all mate, you can drop your next army list here and we'll work on it you'd like

Cheers!
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Old 29 Nov 2005, 20:28   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLAELITE132
sorry for abandoning this list after all the help you gave :-\ .
Lol..I did that a couple of times...

So..what's the new army list gonna be like?
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Old 29 Nov 2005, 23:05   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?

How does this 1850pt. chaos undivided army look?

HQ:

Deamon Prince- 160pts.
-Daemonic Stature
-Daemonic Resilience
-Daemonic Strength
-Daemonic Aura
-Daemonic Essence
-Daemonic Speed
-Daemonic Venom
-Deamonic Mutation




ELITE:

one group of 3 obliterator cult- 210pts.

1 group of 5 chosen terminators- 215pts.
-reaper autocannon
-infiltrate


TROOPS:

2 groups of 6 chaos space marine-224pts.
-missile launcher
-plasma gun
-tank hunters

2 groups of 6 chaos space marine-224pts.
-autocannon
-plasma gun
-tank hunters

2 groups of 6 chaos space marine- 234pts.
-lascannon
-plasma gun
-tank hunters

HEAVY SUPPORT:

1 group of 8 chaos havocs- 172pts.
-4 heavy bolter

1 group of 8 chaos havocs-246pts.
-2 missile launcher
-2 lascannon
-tank hunters

1 group of 6 chaos havocs- 162pts.
-3 autocannon
-tank hunters


TOTAL: 1847pts.

This army is obviously a mainly shooting army, but it has two very powerful CC units, the Deamon Prince and the terminators, which would both basically be either a) there to halt an enemies advance if they are an assaulty army b) go after units that stray from the enemies main formation or c) work together to assault the main enemy force and cause a lot of damage as the rest of my army blast away at their formation.
__________________
My 40k armies:

Tau- 2000pts.
space marines- 500pts.
tyranids- 200pts. (battle for mccrage )
Lost and the damned- 300pts. (just started)

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Old 29 Nov 2005, 23:42   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?

Killa:

There are aspects of it which are good, and those which are not good - and a small illegal problem.

HQ:

This is a good prince; solid construction, tough and fast and not way too expensive. However, considering the rest of your army doesn't move, at all, you will probably lose him to lascannons or any of the anti-tank guns that your opponent has very early on depending on terrain. I would be careful with him; or even consider perhaps a smaller Lord for the same price, depending on who you're playing.

Elite1: 3 Oblits is solid; Though really they're not even necessary compared to the rest of your army - I personally would suggest dropping these -or- dropping a squad of your troops in order to buy yourself a mobilized squad or two for close combat.

Elite2: Terminators may not have infiltration. Otherwise, they're fine; They're going to be very unsupported if they deep strike; and if they walk, they'll be shot to ribbons. Personally I would drop them, in favor of Chosen rigged for combat, or Possessed rigged for combat (anything mobilized).

Troops1~2: Good setup, but I would stick to lascannons and autocannons (missile launchers don't have a huge advantage over those two guns).

Troops3~4: Excellence.

Troops5~6: Very good squads.

Overall - I'd recommend you drop two squads (the missile squads) and instead, build some mobilized combat squads in rhinos, or at least infiltrators. You need to be able to move with your army or you will not be able to play missions successfully.

Heavy1: Havocs with heavy bolters rock the house.

Heavy2: Missiles & Lascannons together in Havoc teams are not good - way too expensive. You're better off with a few lascannons that are S10 with tank hunters in troops. Havocs should be using the cheaper dakka guns instead of the biggest most expensive guns. Massive point sink here. I recommend you drop this completely in favor of Havocs in a Rhino, 2 of them with meltaguns, an aspiring champion with a powerfist. You can get mobilized "troop like" squads as heavy support here! And they're still very closely priced while you save big points on your heavy guns.

Heavy3: Autocannons rock.

--- Overall, you need mobile elements. I would suggest 3 mobilized squads in 1850 points for this list. You also need some combat ability, aside from a character (your prince). You could easily get this from (1) elites (2) a Troop and (3) a Heavy as described above.

Cheers!
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Old 30 Nov 2005, 00:14   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?

Now it's my turn

Anwyay, here are my add-ons to MaLVeauX;

I'd drop the termis AND the obliterators. Both don't really have a big point in the army, and both cost alot of points. With the extra points from dropping both f these, you could get some chosen in there. Maybe a squad like this;

Chosen:205
6 Chosen
2 Plasma Guns
Aspiring Champ.:+25
Powerfist
Bolt Pistol
Rhino w/ Extra Armor and Smoke Launchers-58

Good, mobile squad, perfect for capturing objectives.

I have more suggestions, but I got to go somewhere. I'll continue when I get back.
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Old 30 Nov 2005, 01:23   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?

How does this new and improved chaos space marine army look? (Thanks for the tips, I completely missed out on mobilized units)

HQ:

Deamon Prince- 160pts.
-Daemonic Stature
-Daemonic Resilience
-Daemonic Strength
-Daemonic Aura
-Daemonic Essence
-Daemonic Speed
-Daemonic Venom
-Deamonic Mutation




ELITE:

Chosen:205
6 Chosen
2 Plasma Guns
Aspiring Champ.:
Powerfist
Bolt Pistol
Rhino w/ Extra Armor and Smoke Launchers-58

TROOPS:

2 groups of 10 chaos space marine- 512pts.
-melta gun
-aspiring champion w/ powerfist, deamonic mutation
-rhino troop transport w/ extra armor and smoke launchers


2 groups of 6 chaos space marine-224pts.
-autocannon
-plasma gun
-tank hunters

2 groups of 6 chaos space marine- 234pts.
-lascannon
-plasma gun
-tank hunters

HEAVY SUPPORT:

1 group of 8 chaos havocs- 172pts.
-4 heavy bolter

1 group of 6 chaos havocs-162pts.
-2 melta guns
-aspiring champion w/ power fist, deamonic mutation


1 group of 6 chaos havocs- 182pts.
-4 autocannon
-tank hunters

TOTAL: 1851pts.

How does the army look now? also, is there enough anti armor mixed in this list?
__________________
My 40k armies:

Tau- 2000pts.
space marines- 500pts.
tyranids- 200pts. (battle for mccrage )
Lost and the damned- 300pts. (just started)

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Old 30 Nov 2005, 01:25   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: How does this 1850pt. chaos space marine army look?

also, what would be the most fluffy type of undivided army?
__________________
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Tau- 2000pts.
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tyranids- 200pts. (battle for mccrage )
Lost and the damned- 300pts. (just started)

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