[MagicJuggler]

The army is simple enough, for 2000 pts, try to go for a fantasy theme, meaning I'm doing some proxy;

-Nurgle Archheretic is a knight-errant, the obliterators are War Golems, the Daemonettes are assassins, the Traitors are "modern" infantry, the Kroot are medieval infantry, the Hellhound is a tamed dragon, and the Defiler is a Siege Golem.

Army list:
(Nurgle Archheretic)
-Terminator Armor, Manreaper (proxied to look like a Darth-Maul blade), Daemonic Strength, Daemonic Visage, Spiky Bits.
-Total Cost: 130 pts
2 Obliterators 140 pts
12 Daemonettes 180 pts
Traitor Squad: 15-strong
-14 Traitors, 12 Lasguns, 1 Heavy Stubber, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Icon
-Agitator with Bolt Pistol and Powerfist
-Total Cost: 175 pts
Traitor Squad: 15-strong
-14 Traitors, 12 Lasguns, 1 Heavy Stubber, 1 Missile Launcher, 1 Icon
-Agitator with Bolt Pistol and Powerfist
-Total Cost: 175 pts
Traitor Squad: 10-strong
-9 Traitors, 7 Lasguns, 1 Plasma Rifle, 1 Lascannon, 1 Icon
-Agitator with Bolt Pistol and Powerfist
-Total Cost: 140 pts
Traitor Squad: 10-strong
-9 Traitors, 7 Lasguns, 1 Plasma Rifle, 1 Lascannon, 1 Icon
-Agitator with Bolt Pistol and Powerfist
-Rhino with Dirge Caster and Havoc Launcher
-Total Cost: 230 pts
Kroot Merc Squad: 16-strong
-15 Kroot Rifles
-1 Shaper w/ Eviscerator and Auspex
-Total Cost: 171 pts
Kroot Merc Squad: 16-strong
-15 Kroot Rifles
-1 Shaper w/ Eviscerator and Auspex
-Total Cost: 171 pts
Rough Rider Squad: 10-strong
-10 Hunting Lances
-Total Cost: 110 pts
Hellhound w/ Heavy Bolter, Inferno Cannon, and Extra Armor: 120 pts
Kroot Sniper Squad: 10-strong
-9 Snipers
-Shaper w/ Sniper Rifle
-Total Cost: 109 pts
Defiler: 150 pts
Total Cost: 2001 pts

[ShadowDeth]

I think the army looks decent. A couple of things I would change. I don't know about hunting lances in rough rider squads, I think you could fill a much more important role of anti tank with two groups of 5 with meltabombs, and it would probably be cheaper as well.

As for the defiler, you really, repeat - really don't want to play a bare bones defiler. You're essentially paying 150 points for a battlecannon strapped to a huge liability. At least make those missile launchers work to kill it. Either choose indirect for it where it doesn't need the armor, or mutate it. Since you have very little in the way of threatening tanks beyond the hellhound, I would vote for the indirect route. It will give you some much needed ability to bust hidden units and armor because you basically have very little mobility. One squad in a rhino is going to be a huge red flag, so I wouldn't count on it surviving long enough to move around the field.

Now as for the kroot, what purpose do they serve? Because if it's firepower you can get that in much better places in this army list, and if it's assault ability - mutants exceed them by far. Have you considered mutants over the mercenaries?

Malveaux could give you stronger advice when he shows up, but i'm not really sold on playing a traitor heavy army that has to footslog across the field. And if you infiltrate them, they are suffering from massive leadership issues. You really want traitors fearless at all times, or at least attached to an aspiring chaos champ for the 10 leadership.

[MalVeauX]

MJ:

It's a nicely devised list, but I must really caution you now, if you have never played the Damned or this type of army that this will be a very challenging list to play with at the 2,000 point level. And it's not because of you but it's because of the weaknesses of the army list in general. Pure traitor armies not balanced at all as they're only a tiny portion of the entire codex list, which means, they're specializing in one department and losing out on all the others. In your case, it's fielding shooting attacks. But you're losing out upon the powers of assault, leadership, mobility, and in the end, resilience in exchange. If traitors worked like infantry platoons for the normal guard, it would be different, but as it is, we pay more points for units which are even more poor than guardsmen, having terrible, terrible leadership. Just to make a point, a single Librarian with Fear of Darkness would completely ruin this army (especially a terminator one that can withstand anything you throw at him most likely). That's a very dangerous thing. But that's not just a one-case-scenario. Anyone who takes template weapons will wreck this army and anyone who can cause leadership checks, pinning, etc will cause you much strife. If you're going to go all traitors; you need leadership big time, and for that, you have dirge casters or the chance to ally a word bearer demagogue HQ to stand in the middle and cause fearlessness. There are ways to make it work; but know that you're really taking the heel of the army and making it the boot. Another big thing, is that you setup your agitators for combat, which is very expensive and probably won't even come to pass in your games. You will find that they either never get touched, or they get totally destroyed in the shooting phase. It totally depends on the rest of the army. Also, I can't say I would ever recommend a Defiler over a Russ when you have a choice. I would highly recommend changing that out.

Anyhow, on to the list:

HQ1:

The arch heretic is interesting, but I would recommend some changes. As it is, you're paying 130 points for a Lt. with 2 wounds that is easily killed and focuses only on offense. I would recommend a 3rd wound (essence) for sure in the case, as he is tough with T5 and strong with S5 manreaper attacks coming along. I would drop spiky bits and daemonic visage however, as you don't want him out of combat, ever and you want him as cheap as possible. Overall; good choice.

HQ2:

No choice; However, a suggestion is an allied wordbearer demagogue (cheaply built) for leadership aid. Example:

Chaos Lt. (65 points)
-Demagogue

Then simply take more and more traitors and units, to make them all fearless. Just a suggestion.

Elite1:

Obliterators are a great unit for the Damned, allowing mobile heavy weapons in a manner. Really though, they're bad when they are deployed early because enemy lascannons will reduce them to zero really quickly. Instead, they're a great shock instrument, allowing you to deep strike with twin-linked plasma or meltas and really put a dent in something fast, while being tough as a nail to return fire. Good choice overall.

Elite2:

Daemonettes are wonderful; but 12 of them in a single squad is bad. For starters, all your icons are on units which have ranged weapons and will not be close to the enemy. That means, once summoned, your Daemoenettes will be in the open and easy targets for shooting. T3 with a 5+ save isn't going to last long in the shooting phase and if they're not shot to pieces, instability may claim the last few. I would highly recommend splitting them into two squads of 6. Also, consider other ways to get icons up close, faster than with traitors.

Troop1:

Maxed traitor squads are very dangerous. Do not invest much into them at all; or you will regret it when they turn and run. They infiltrate, so put them in cover right away; and grant them ranged weapons to match this cover which will help them survive a round of shooting. As for shooting itself, the heavy stubber & missile launcher are not a bad idea. The icon however, is a bad idea, for the reasons already stated for the daemonettes above. Another big problem, is that expensive agitator with a powerfist and pistol. That's a load of points for near nothing, because these squads will probably never see combat. They will flee when they're shot at, and if they do see combat, they will fleet from combat almost guaranteed. For maxed squads, I would recommend heavy bolter & stubber setups; otherwise, sniper rifle & lascannon setups.

Troop2:

Same; see above.

Troop3:

This time around; we have less models, yet even more high profile weapons. The las/plas combo will call attention, so you want more models behind them. I would trade their weapons with your maxed squads to make the most of it. Again; I would highly recommend dropping the Agitator and powerfist. Also the icon.

Troop4 & 5:

Kroot are great; They infiltrate right up in your enemy's face and they're pretty decent at shooting and combat; the Eviscerator will work wonders too. The problem is, they're costly and they too have poor leadership comparatively speaking. That means, they may not last long, but they may buy you some time. Overall; I'd recommend mutants in their place any day as they're much better, even if you upgrade them. Speedy mutants for example with a boss and a fist would be a good alternative.

Fast1:

This squad is now a fast attack due to the Rhino; but I would still advise the same things as above; However, another option is to rig them for closer ranges, like flamers and an icon. Though really, it's probably better to let them stay their ground with range, and allow the dirge caster to keep some of them steady for a while.

Fast2:

Roughriders are cool; but hunting lances are not so hot. I would recommend not doing this as they require combat, and even then, it's very unreliable. On another note, you could give them meltabombs and send them crashing into a tank that costs much more and probably reduce it to a multen heap. Overall a better use of rough riders, aside from objective or quarter taking. Another option is the meltagun here. Overall; they're better off not attempting to assault things. They're just not that good at it, even with lances, and with lances they're not worth their points.

Fast3:

Hellhounds are incredibly fun. However, it's A12 and your enemy's anti-tank weaponry will easily saturate it first turn. Overall a good choice, but beware.

Heavy1:

Hunters are awesome. Good choice, though check the points here.

Heavy2:

Really, the Defiler here is weak. It's easily destroyed and requires line of sight. Not a good mix. Also, for the price, a Leman Russ is far, far superior and you have traitors. You could split up squads and make room, and suddenly have a mighty russ to help your side out and it would be a huge benefit. Overall, I would strive for the russ and drop the Defiler (otherwise, Hull or Indirect Fire are the choices).

As an alternative, don't underestimate the power of chaos spawn... just a thought

Cheers!

[MagicJuggler]

Wow, I thought I had placed armor on the Defiler?

I'll probably switch to two squads of Daemonettes for versatility, the reason I placed AT weapons in the smaller squads was because all that lasgun fire would be wasted on tanks, the Kroot were meant to shore up numbers and provide a "pillbox" unit (and I had difficultly rationalizing my medieval troops being more durable than the modern ones...though I probably will consider switching to mutants).

So I figure the Rough Riders can be replaced with more 'Nettes, the Kroot with Mutants v/ Firearms, the Rhino I need to sell off and replace with a Demagogue (though this means my Arch-Heretic would need to remove his ManReaper...I'd replace him though with Aspiring Champions for the Muties), and I'll toss a mutated hull onto the Defiler.

[MalVeauX]

Originally Posted by MagicJuggler

Wow, I thought I had placed armor on the Defiler?

I'll probably switch to two squads of Daemonettes for versatility, the reason I placed AT weapons in the smaller squads was because all that lasgun fire would be wasted on tanks, the Kroot were meant to shore up numbers and provide a "pillbox" unit (and I had difficultly rationalizing my medieval troops being more durable than the modern ones...though I probably will consider switching to mutants).

So I figure the Rough Riders can be replaced with more 'Nettes, the Kroot with Mutants v/ Firearms, the Rhino I need to sell off and replace with a Demagogue (though this means my Arch-Heretic would need to remove his ManReaper...I'd replace him though with Aspiring Champions for the Muties), and I'll toss a mutated hull onto the Defiler.

Just a reminder about Demagogues: They're your allied 0-1 HQ option. You do not have to change your current Arch heretic. To ally one, you simply take a Chaos Lt. or Lord, and grant him Demagogue - it's available to independent characters. More like a 2nd HQ option; I usually use mine to lead cheap mutants and provide powerful counter assault, but you could find something for your army as well. Another option to to simply grant Dirge Caster to every chaos vehicle you have instead.

Cheers!

[MagicJuggler]

I know that, but to take the Demagogue ability requires taking the Accursed Crozius, which is a Daemon Weapon itself. Had it not been for that, I would keep my ArchHeretic. As is, the idea of throwing 3 Aspiring Champions into the mix is more appealing.

[MalVeauX]

Originally Posted by MagicJuggler

I know that, but to take the Demagogue ability requires taking the Accursed Crozius, which is a Daemon Weapon itself. Had it not been for that, I would keep my ArchHeretic. As is, the idea of throwing 3 Aspiring Champions into the mix is more appealing.

Actually you'll find that the Demagogue ability does not specifically state that it must be taken with the accursed crozius, which was clarified when we received a nice FAQ update which states we may have more than one demagogue (yet only one daemon weapon). Your demagogue does not have to be a Dark Apostle However, your Dark Apostle must have the Accursed Crozius and he is still allowed to take the Demagogue ability on top of that if he wishes.

Cheers!

[MagicJuggler]

If that's the case, I'm now happy just giving the Chaplain a Power Weapon and Daemonic Strength.