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The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 18:47   #1 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate

Well, making a forum for a club with a highly annoying president really makes things jump a notch.

Anyway here is what I posted when he says tha he does not like to write the tactica and the like in the forum and about himn stating the fact that the censor filter is acting weirdly while he is the admin while I am the Global Mod (and yes, I demoted myself from Admin to Global just so that he can do what he pleases with the site;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin K
Well, you know I'm not the essay writing kind, so I'd rather leave the fluff writing aspect to you guys, you should really check the BUTT censoring thing, coz anything you type that has an @$$ in it will get censored, which makes the right things seem wrong...
Well, the thing is....

You are the admin. SO you have to fix that. I am demoted from Admin to Global mod.

PS: Alvin, remember that the mods and admins have to make essays and tacticas for other sot follow, in addition to enforcing the order of things in the forum. It is not as easy as just sitting there and just watching. If you can't handle the stress of being an admin , I highly suggest that you do not take the post and instead be a mod or something.

Just a comment from a concerned co-worker.
and then he replied;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin K
Excuse me Mr Vincent Chen, remember the day we had a meeting and somebody said they want to take the roll in building up the forum?

Did I offer to be an admin? Maybe I became an admin as means to control the forum wherever I see fit.

I did not suggest typing lengthy essays for people to read, because I believe nobody will read it in the first place. If I were to do it my way, it will be done the http://minifightclub.forumer.com style.

You know me very well, when I'm crazy, I'm crazy, when I'm serious, I'm very serious, so I'm suggesting right now that we make our forums to look more professional by:

1) Copy over all the army descriptions from http://minifightclub.forumer.com If GW has a problem, they will let us know.
2) Do not diffuse on responsibility, do what we have to do, the reason I allowed you to build up this forum is because you can type those long winded essays that maybe 10% of visitors will read. My responsibility is the harmony of this forum, the security, the society.
3) Don't behave like an elite, I know you have more experience and so on, such behavior is unnecessary. I get stern when I'm serious.
4) Our forums are ready to be opened, as long as the ground rules are laid and we have enough people moderating/monitoring the forums.
5) Contents will come on their own. We can contribute anyhow we want, it's a forum, you're not forced to share anything.
6) This baby blue colour is making me sick. We need a more solid colour.
7) This is my first time building a forum, how much do you think I know about the settings and such?
8) Having lots of admins is not a problem, otherwise why would I designate Wesley to be the Blog and Forum person? More admins/moderators ensures that the forums are being monitored all the time. Imagine having 1 admin, don't you think that 1 particular admin will go crazy doing so many things?
9) If people want the fluff, we can direct them to the GW websites, it's not that hard. They should have a codex if they want to know that much.
10) Tactics are discussed, what makes you think your tactics work 100%? Which is a reason why I didn't bother typing all those sheat. < Not a typo.

I'm done ranting for now, and I believe you have some personal reflection to do.

Alvin
And yes, he just called tacticas, and fluff about the armies as "lenghty essays that people would not read."

And here is my response to the whole thing;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
Alvin, the way you say it, is sounds a little unprofessional. If you want to disagree, try to say your points more than just trying to bite at the weaknesses and say nothing about why they are weak. That is poor forumship. As for my personal reflection, here is my answers to all the issues that you have brought forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin K
Excuse me Mr Vincent Chen, remember the day we had a meeting and somebody said they want to take the roll in building up the forum?

Did I offer to be an admin? Maybe I became an admin as means to control the forum wherever I see fit.
Did I call you in such a sarcastic manner? I do not think so and personally that is more to flaming. But I will let it slide, as you are passionate about the issue at hand.

You have to realize that you wanted the forums the way you like it, and thus it would be in the best interest that you become admin. Didn't the other agree to it? I said that I will make the forum, but did I say I will lead it? I do not believe so, for I know my place in the forums. It is the brainchild of the club (yours to be exact) and if you want this idea to develop, you have to take matters to your own hands.

I say I will help the others to help manage the forums, and creating a system that you guys agreed on. So is it wrong to do my job well? I believe you know best as to what the answer would be.

Quote:
I did not suggest typing lengthy essays for people to read, because I believe nobody will read it in the first place. If I were to do it my way, it will be done the http://minifightclub.forumer.com style.
These "lengthy essays that no one would read" are often the hallmark of GW-based forums. So I suggest that you try not to underestimate such posts by other members whose purposes is to just share something with the rest of the forum.

Have you seen the larger forums in regards to 40k and Fantasy? Tacticas, Battle reports and the likes are always a treatise, not a single liner post. Some things can not be said in single lines, and also remember that guidelines are sometimes long as well. Please check up on th other forums when it comes to their own army boards and also other stuff. In addition, some articles from forums are used by GW staff to help them check their own stuff. A major example of such an article would be the Index Astartes articles by Vash113, whose work have been known the be referenced by even the Higher Echelons of GW.

These posts allows members to know the fluff of the army straight up, and sometimes they are more comprehensive than GW's own.

Sometimes, people just want to read what the other posters have to say about a particular issue, and these kind of articles are meant to stimulate the mind and allow forumites to participate. If you disagree with what the other poster did in that batle report, you are free to speak your mind out, provided that you followed the rules.

Quote:
1) Copy over all the army descriptions from http://minifightclub.forumer.com If GW has a problem, they will let us know.
Army description is easy to write up in one go. But having direct sources from GW sites will often be bad for anyone that is not GW. Instead of waiting for them, might as well we practice it straight up. Prevention is always better than a cure.

Quote:
2) Do not diffuse on responsibility, do what we have to do, the reason I allowed you to build up this forum is because you can type those long winded essays that maybe 10% of visitors will read. My responsibility is the harmony of this forum, the security, the society.
Do remember that the site is meant to promote and help people understand their armies. They can post anything contrary to what I said, provided that they can argue their point appropriately. If you do not even help the beginners, what can you do? Let them spam the forums and degrade it?

Tacticas and introductions, in addition to the discussions that come are to be encouraged and also to help members becoming more helpful. We do not want a single-liner posts. And if you read the rules properly, we do not expect mini-essays from everyone, but they are free to write in a constructive and helpful way, and if it takes them several pages to do so (if they do it right) then it will help people to do things.

This is how we promote a more professional forum community. The responsibility of maintaining the peace of the forum falls to the mods and the admins, that I will admit, but remember that we have other jobs to do as well in addition to keeping the peace.

Quote:
3) Don't behave like an elite, I know you have more experience and so on, such behavior is unnecessary. I get stern when I'm serious.
Yes, being stern is good but do note that sometimes we must argue our points in a more civilized manner, and sometimes we must help the other mods do their job. Behaviour of being a professional does not make one an elite. I am just stating the job of a moderator and an admin which no matter what, must be followed as a principle of professionalism.

If you want to be a more lax moderator, you are free to do so provided that you do your job. We do nt expect Supermen, we expect competent people in the Forum staff.

Quote:
4) Our forums are ready to be opened, as long as the ground rules are laid and we have enough people moderating/monitoring the forums.
Then by all means start it. My opinions are there as advices, not insults, and if you perceived it to be so, then I must apologize for such misconceptions.

Quote:
5) Contents will come on their own. We can contribute anyhow we want, it's a forum, you're not forced to share anything.
There you go. When you just say this you have contradict yourself when you state point #2. Everyone is allowed to do what they want for the benefit of the community here. Who is there to stop them?

Quote:
6) This baby blue colour is making me sick. We need a more solid colour.
7) This is my first time building a forum, how much do you think I know about the settings and such?
IF you do not know how to use the settings, you can always ask a co-mod or admin to help you. There is no harm in that. In addition, you can customize your own themes, as it is a feature open for all the members. Everyone prefer their own theme, this is just a default them for the forum.

The background is customizable in every forum, so remember that.

Quote:
8) Having lots of admins is not a problem, otherwise why would I designate Wesley to be the Blog and Forum person? More admins/moderators ensures that the forums are being monitored all the time. Imagine having 1 admin, don't you think that 1 particular admin will go crazy doing so many things?
You have a point there, but as of this moment, we do not even have members that number over 5000 yet. When it exceeds that number then, you can go about hiring new admins.

Most of the time, 2 admin is more than enough.

Quote:
9) If people want the fluff, we can direct them to the GW websites, it's not that hard. They should have a codex if they want to know that much.
Ah, but then there are fluff from other sources, like from the Black Library novels, or even from Rogue Trader? If they are interested in that, how do they find such stories and the likes? This can only be passed form Forum members who have the books themselves to other in the forum that are less fortunate in their lore about the Warhammer world.

Quote:
10) Tactics are discussed, what makes you think your tactics work 100%? Which is a reason why I didn't bother typing all those sheat. < Not a typo.
Like I say just now, you are free to dispute what I say provided that you do it in accordance with forum rules. It is stuff like this that allows people to discuss and debate about some tactics. I honestly do not see the problem with people disputing what I believe is right, for they have every right to have their ow perceptions about what suits them best.

Quote:
I'm done ranting for now, and I believe you have some personal reflection to do.
And this is my answer to your 'ranting' (which by the way is always discouraged in forums unless it is done in the rant thread or something similar).

Alvin, you have to think more than just "I do not like this because it is not true in my case" or anything like that. You have to remember, we are here to develop a community that are both friendly and also knowledgable, and are able to think independently. IF you just gun them down for the sake of "this is not right", then what gives you the right to gun down what they think is right? They want to write about their own styles of playing, but you gunned them down and say that it is not how army XXX is supposed to play. That is not right isn't it?

Instead of complaining, mind doing something to help? IT would help that our forums are not bare-boned and not looking professional at all. Like you have said, we are here to do things professionally, and thus we need to put the effort to make it so. In addition, if you want this to really work, you need to set a standard so that the others will follow, and how do you do that? You lead. You do things, like writing the rules, posting in a helpful and knowledgeable manner.

In addition, I do find that the Fantasy part being the most redundant part of the forum, and thus needs to be downsized. I would prefer that it is done just as the Fantasy Board, but if you want it to stay with all the subboards in it, then do something to let it stay alive. If not, try to make it have at least a decent flow of traffic in it. I am not really a Fantasy player, I will admit that, and I do need help if there is a Fantasy board.
All I did was trying to be a responsible Moderator, and then he tries to flame me. I am currently awaiting his answer. If he can rebuff all of these without trying to flame me one bit, I say he is alright, but if he continues to "rant" like that, then I would personally ban his ass for it.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emlyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by FT
They're an insane bunch of reptiles...
I wasn't asking about the moderating staff.
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 19:06   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate

So he's basically trying to get out of being an admin and trying to palm off the responsibility of running a forum onto somebody else?
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 19:15   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant Hunter (FT)
So he's basically trying to get out of being an admin and trying to palm off the responsibility of running a forum onto somebody else?
As to that one...here is another quote that is before this banter. He asked me when the forums is open to the public;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin K
Big question, when can we open this forum to the public?
When we filled the Boards with the appropriate stickies and stuff. The faster we do this, the faster the forum can be opened to the public. SO please do help and fill up the forums with the rules, fluff, and tacticas.
And his reply to my reply;

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvin K
Oh, I'm not that good in that, but I believe that in time, people will post up something real good that can earn a sticky and some faith... I'm just playing with the forum for now...

So...what do you think FT?
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Guide to keeping:
Scorpions : Corn Snakes : Basilisks


Quote:
Originally Posted by Emlyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by FT
They're an insane bunch of reptiles...
I wasn't asking about the moderating staff.
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 19:20   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate

Seems at points like hes not got a clue what he's doing while but is still at others saying he's thinking its wrong.

He's trying to argue his case from the moral low-ground.
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 19:22   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crisis_Vyper
So...what do you think FT?
Heh, I don't think he'll be very good as an admin, unless he's got mad people skills .

But I suppose you do need periods of adjustment when your dealing with a brand new forum. I mean Tau Online only took a day to do it before it was open to the public (IIRC, the boards all had stickies, but they could of been copied over from the original proboard site).

I suppose you could open up with just the rank info, forum rules and some small amounts of content, but it wouldn't stay that way for very long.

Oh and CV, if you want any help on the mod/global/admin side of things, drop me a PM, I'm more then happy to help ;D
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 19:24   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate

You need content there to get people to stay. That's why I'd say to anyone wanting to start a 40k forum:

"Don't do it. Go to your browser. Type in http://forums.tauonline.org. Sign up."

That's it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 19:26   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant Hunter (FT)
But I suppose you do need periods of adjustment when your dealing with a brand new forum. I mean Tau Online only took a day to do it before it was open to the public (IIRC, the boards all had stickies, but they could of been copied over from the original proboard site).

I suppose you could open up with just the rank info, forum rules and some small amounts of content, but it wouldn't stay that way for very long.
Yeah, if he wants it to go lightly-armed, I would have no qualms, but nevertheless the fact that he is having a double standard in regards to professionalism really irks me a lot. If given a choice, I would stick with TO as it is a more friendly and professional body but nevertheless, I am doing this for a job that my club asked me to do, and I did it well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Circus
You need content there to get people to stay. That's why I'd say to anyone wanting to start a 40k forum:

"Don't do it. Go to your browser. Type in http://forums.tauonline.org. Sign up."

That's it.
You think I do not want to do that?

I am actually doing what the Chinese call "giving face" to him. If it were me, I would just make a board, and put the link to TO from there on. :
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emlyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by FT
They're an insane bunch of reptiles...
I wasn't asking about the moderating staff.
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 19:33   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate

You know, I wouldn't be adverse to creating a public (or maybe even hidden) board for you guys to use here. It wouldn't be too hard to set up the permissions so that you can control who views the board.

But it would require a bit of discussion with the staff/mods here and of course yourselves.
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 19:36   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant Hunter (FT)
You know, I wouldn't be adverse to creating a public (or maybe even hidden) board for you guys to use here. It wouldn't be too hard to set up the permissions so that you can control who views the board.

But it would require a bit of discussion with the staff/mods here and of course yourselves.
FT, what would the point of that be?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Restayvien
Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

You may call me Circus.
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 19:38   #10 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: The interesting banter between a President and his subordinate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutant Hunter (FT)
You know, I wouldn't be adverse to creating a public (or maybe even hidden) board for you guys to use here. It wouldn't be too hard to set up the permissions so that you can control who views the board.

But it would require a bit of discussion with the staff/mods here and of course yourselves.
Well, if you think that it is wise, then please do so. Anyway, only those that have more than 250 post can see the enclave right? So far I believe that it is hard even to go into the Enclave without admin's approval.

__________________
Guide to keeping:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emlyn
Quote:
Originally Posted by FT
They're an insane bunch of reptiles...
I wasn't asking about the moderating staff.
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