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help!!
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Old 28 Aug 2007, 00:51   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 48
Default help!!

hi i made a 1500 points list and was quite proud of it until i thought the word: tanks, damn.

this is my list:

h.q.
farseer
spirit stones
runes of witnesing
guide
doom
singing spear - 133 points

autarch
warp jump generator
mandiblasters
power weapon
fusion gun - 125 points

elites
5 howling banshees
exarch
exucutioner
war shout - 123 points

7 harlequins
troupe master
death jester
shadowseer
8 harlequins kiss
2 fusion pistols - 292 points

troops
9 dire avengers
exarch
dual avenger shuriken catapults
blade storm
mounted in a wave serpent
twin linked bright lance - 287 points

5 pathfinders - 120 points

fast attack
9 warp spiders
exarch
2 death spinners
powerblades
withdraw - 262 points

2 shining spears
exarch
star lance
withdraw - 157 points

total points: 1499

my strategy is that i join the farseer to the dire avengers guiding and dooming and they follow the stratergy said in this link: http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=52345.0
my autarch then joins the warpspiders adding a definite punch to the unit also if their target is battered enough i charge them in and with the exarch and autarch their facing ten power weapon attacks something that they wont be expecting from such a good shooty unit. between the two i try to decimate the closest or most threating squad the enemy has per turn so they should have at least 1 unit dead or severly batterd every turn but when they do get close my close combat specalist counter attack.

so please give me some idea of what should go and what should come to really blast those tanks.
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Old 28 Aug 2007, 02:22   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: help!!

I posted in the wrong area, apologies I was not more clear.

I would comment here, but honestly I simply don't know Eldar enough yet to offer advice as I don't have the experience with Eldar yet.

I imagine you will get excellent help soon though!

Otto
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Old 28 Aug 2007, 05:09   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: help!!

You need to trim down on all of the upgrades. You have a very low model count but a high cost per model. With the eldar, there are few if any jack of all trades units. Most of the time, you're going to grab a specific unit and stick them to a specific role. f

For example, you have guide and spirit stones on your farseer, but guide has little to no value in a list with few shooting models, and the few shooting models are sporting BS 4-5--so that's some fat you can trim off the list right away. Also where is this HQ really going to go--randomly run about solo? Because if you really plan on putting it into the wave serpent with the dire avengers, then you have limited ability to use your psychic powers. You cannot use psychic powers from within a transport, so there goes Doom/Guide (which you don't need guide with BS4/5 models... remember?) With a list this fast, i'd suggest a jetbike or tossing him/her altogether.

I like what you've done for the warp spider/autarch setup. However, I would lower the model count in the warp spider group down to maybe a 5 or 7. With a smaller overall unit size, it makes them easier to hide in cover, and helps the unit to be more focused in their specific role. I would also drop the fusion gun from the autarch, again with the multirole units. The warp spiders are good at light armor, but the unit shouldn't waste it's time firing on a heavy armor vehicle with just the lone autarch's fusion gun. He's got haywire grenades, if absolutely necessary... consider those instead. Otherwise, get some real anti-tank first.

The banshee group and the harlequin group and banshee group without transports will be left in the dust by your much faster dire avenger, warp spider, and shining spear groups. I would suggest massive trimming of the harlequin group, and maybe even dump the banshees too. Shoot for a falcon transport for the trimmed down harlequin troupe and remember that too many kisses can sometimes be overkill. The deathjester also typically has limited use in a troupe geared up for CC. I would suggest dropping him entirely along with the troupe master. 6 harlequins, with one upgraded to shadowseer and maybe 4 or 5 kisses would be perfect.

The dire avenger setup is beautiful. I would suggest dropping the brightlances off of the wave serpent though. I am typically a fan of shuriken cannons on easily stunned/shaken eldar craft.

I don't like pathfinders and that's just a personal preference, so I won't go into any other detail there.

I have never used shining spears, so I unfortunately have no advice to offer there either.




Cheers, and happy gaming!
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Old 28 Aug 2007, 05:32   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
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Default Re: help!!

thanks alot!

maybe ill trim the harlequins and boost banshees, incase i wasnt clear theese girls are trouble shooters so they will probaly be behind cover. my main gaming buddy says that they are pretty useless unless in a squad of 10... when i make my new and improved list i will post it here. thanks again.
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Old 28 Aug 2007, 09:14   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: help!!

Glad to be of any help.

I'd encourage Farseer_Emlyn, or Yriel, or Wingates, or any of the more ... 'regular' pros to post and help you out, as you'll get much more seasoned advice there, than from me.

Best of luck to you.
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Old 28 Aug 2007, 12:29   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Location: St. Paul, Minnesota
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Default Re: help!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Orthonceo
hi i made a 1500 points list and was quite proud of it until i thought the word: tanks, damn.

this is my list:

h.q.
farseer
spirit stones
runes of witnesing
guide
doom
singing spear - 133 points
I would cut this guy down. I know how cool Farseers are but in my experiance they are best used as a cheap helping unit. If you are planing on having him help on the battlefield with the Dire Avengers he really does not need guide. The Dire Avengers Bladestorm is very powerful.

Farseer
Jetbike
Doom
Singing Spear
113

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Orthonceo
autarch
warp jump generator
mandiblasters
power weapon
fusion gun - 125 points
I like this setup but you may want to conside Swooping Hawk wings or a jetbike. Taking the Warp Jump generator will force you to attach him to the Spiders to avoid that nasty double roll and instant death. Attaching him to the Warp Spiders will make him loose his IC status. Some options here would be.

Bike Autarch
Mandiblasters
Reaper Launcher
Laser Lance
Jetbike
155

or,

Independant Character/Tank hunting Autarch
Mandiblasters
Power Weapon
Fusion Gun
Swooping Hawk Wings
120

or,

Avenger Autarch
Mandiblasters
Power Weapon
92

Now each one of these has a different role to fill. The jetbike Autarch should run with the Shining spears and should only attach to the unit when assulting a target. The tank hunting Autarch should use his excellant movement to jump from cover to cover to get to an enemy Tank. Remember he has haywire generades. The Avenger Autarch needs to run with the Dire Avengers as he will get the benifit of bladestorm. Have him attach to the unit only before the big shooting. He will then provide the unit with a CC punch. Do not forget that he has Plasma generades so he can assult troops into cover. Only assult after you have used the bladestorm to soften up the target. This means you will want to get close to your enemy using a wave serpent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Orthonceo
elites
5 howling banshees
exarch
exucutioner
war shout - 123 points
Not bad at all. Loose War Shout as its really not going to help you much against todays armies. Most armies that you will face have a high leadership. These girls will be tricky to use without the benifit of a Falcon or Wave Serpent. It may not be a bad idea to drop them all together to find points for a Falcon for the Harlequins.

5 howling banshees
exarch
exucutioner
102

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Orthonceo
7 harlequins
troupe master
death jester
shadowseer
8 harlequins kiss
2 fusion pistols - 292 points
This unit is less than optimal. For best results and ease of movement I would suggest taking this unit down to 6 Killer clowns. You really do not want these guys to be super expensive and you do not want them hunting tanks.*

5x Harlequins
5x Harlequin's Kiss
1x Shadowseer
Harlequin's Kiss
162

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Orthonceo
troops
9 dire avengers
exarch
dual avenger shuriken catapults
blade storm
mounted in a wave serpent
twin linked bright lance - 287 points
Zero protection for the Wave Serpent is a bad idea here. If you had regular old Guardians in the Serpent it would be acceptable. However you are using the Serpent rush idea. Drop and destroy a target. Without the Serpent upgrades this transport will die and crash taking some of your Dire Avengers with it. Lets try this configuration.

9x Dire Avengers
1x Avenger Exarch
Power Weapon Shimmer Shield
Defend
Wave Serpent
Twin Catapult Cannons
Spirit Stones
Vectored Engines
244

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Orthonceo
5 pathfinders - 120 points
These guys are fine. Remember they can take out armor. Do not count on them taking out Armor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Orthonceo
fast attack
9 warp spiders
exarch
2 death spinners
powerblades
withdraw - 262 points
This is not a bad unit however I would run it smaller and without any upgrades. Spiders should not see Assult Combat.

5x Warp Spiders
1x Spider Exarch
Twin Death Spinners
149

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Orthonceo
2 shining spears
exarch
star lance
withdraw - 157 points
This unit is not worth the points. I would drop them from this list unless you can maximize them. At three models they lack any sort of combat punch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Farseer Orthonceo
total points: 1499
In this army I would run the Avenger Autarch. He may not be as flashy as the others but he is an effective combat unit. Nice and cheap and dangerous.

As it stands now the list is at 1003 points. What you should consider getting is a nice unit of Fire Dragons and a Falcon like this

5x Fire Dragons
TOTAL* * * 80

Dragon Falcon
Scatter Laser
Holo-fields
Spirit Stones
TOTAL* * * 175

Bringing the total to 1258. Now we need some beef to the army.

13x Guardian
Scatter Laser
TOTAL* * * 119

13x Guardian
Scatter Laser
TOTAL* * * 119

Adding these to the mix will make the army 1496 points. And give you a total of 68 models. I hope this helps. This will give you greater flexibility.



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Old 28 Aug 2007, 14:41   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: help!!

Excellent breakdown Autarch Kalesh. +1 Karma for the detailed analysis.

This list has good unit choices, my only concern is point distribution. Some units which work well in small numbers (harlequins, warp spiders) are too large, making them a bit "clumsy" feeling on the board. Other units are too small (Banshees, Shining Spears), which greatly reduces their combat effectiveness.

Autarch Kalesh did a good job really breaking down this list, so I won't really add much, just some general guidelines:

- Your HQ should run >15% of your points total for an optimum army. You're at 17%- which isn't bad, I just worry it reduces your potential for more scoring units in this list.

- You're right to believe that anti-tank will be an issue for this list. At the very least- freeing up 50 points for a vibrocannon may help, but ultimately you'll want a little more than a 50% chance to land glancing hits on vehicles. Frankly- I'd swap the Banshees for Fire Dragons, or move points around to go from Shining Spears to Swooping Hawks. There are a number of ways you can do it- it just depends on what you're more comfortable using.

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Old 29 Aug 2007, 01:51   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 48
Default Re: help!!

this is my new and improved list, hope its up to scratch.

hq
farseer
doom
jetbike
singing spear - 113 points

Autarch
Mandiblasters
Reaper Launcher
Laser Lance
Jetbike - 155 points

elites
5 harlequins
shadowseer
6 harlequins kiss - 162 points

6 fire dragons - 96 points

troops
9 dire avengers
exarch
dual avenger shuriken catapults
blade storm
mounted in a wave serpent
2Xshuriken cannons
vectored engines
spirit stones - 292 points

5 pathfinders - 120 points

fast attack
4 warp spiders
exarch
dual death spinners - 127 points

heavy support
falcon
shuriken cannon
shuriken cannon
vectored engines
holo fields
spirit stones - 195 points

falcon
shuriken cannon
shuriken cannon
vectored engines
holo fields
spirit stones - 195 points

total points: 1455

of course i now have 45 points to spend on i dont know what...

anyway because this is such a different list it natturally has a different stratergy and this is it: the seer skims around using his abbility to manouvere extremely well and stays out of sight of anything but his target he is dooming which will natturally be the same target the dire avengers will go after (heh heh thats one squad dead). the autarch rides with the spears to give them that extra punch everyone says they need 5 models for they are counter assult. the harlies will be used delicately kept back for counter assult unless i see a difinitely safe unit to charge lashing out with their falcons extrem speed then comming back to the battle line. fire dragons. enough said. other than that it is pretty much the same as befor except for the obvious change with the warp spiders.

tell me what you think of it.
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Old 29 Aug 2007, 07:36   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: help!!

pssst!

You don't have any spears in this new list! so... the Autarch is riding alone!

I'd suggest maybe dropping him back down to his original Warp Spider Autarch Configuration.


I like the new list overall though, much much more than the original. Great work!
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Old 29 Aug 2007, 08:00   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: help!!

It looks moderately better now, but to be perfectly honest, I like tooled-up Farseers. Still, this list probably won't need Fortune as you have no units that can really make use of it, and Guide would be a waste with all the BS4. You could go for Eldritch Storm as a secondary power, as the Jetbike Farseer can make use of J-S-J, or perhaps Mind War to get rid of those pesky heavy bolter-toting marines keeping you from doing a Serpent of Fury out of fear for loss of your Avengers. Still, feel free to ignore this bit as it's just my personal preference.

I also don't see why you shouldn't take a Fire Dragon Exarch. Think of it, for (insert number of points for Exarch, firepike and Crack Shot) points you can snipe out heavily-armoured troops in cover (with a 24" control zone, and for another (insert number of points for Tank Hunters) you can up your strength against vehicles, giving you a better chance against toughies like Land Raiders and Monoliths. Seems as good as any other Exarch top me.

Another preference of mine is the Harlequin Troupe Master and fusion pistol upgrades. The Master gives you a nice leadership boost and an extra attack, coming with a free Harlequin's Kiss or a power sword (not that I'd ever take the power sword). Seriously, the more attacks the better. And the fusion pistols, hell, I know we don't want our Harlies near tanks. Still, fusion pistols are good for more than tank-busting. They're also really good at softening up highly-armoured enemies and can put the hurt on monstrous creatures that counter-assault you. Also, they can be all right at back-up anti-tank.

In my main list, I have basically the same Elite choices as you (only with the above preferences), but only one Falcon. I haven't tried it out yet, but I plan on assigning either the Harlies or the Dragons to the Falcon depending on what sort of army I'm playing (e.g. with a tank-heavy army I'll put the Dragons in the falcon and the Harlies can go on foot (ignoring difficult terrain, by the way), while facing an infantry-heavy army the Harlies will take the transport for fast assaults while the Dragons sit back and scare tanks and Terminators away from key points of the field. I'm pretty sure this'll work, and if you adopt this strategy then you could possibly take the Spears back in.

Now, for some miscellaneous comments:

I don't like singing spears on lone Farseers. They need more attacks, should they fall into combat.

I'm not sure whether that reaper launcher is going to work... a heavy weapon on a fast-moving jetbike?

Now that your Shining Spears are gone, what will the Autarch do all game? Kit him out to ride along with the Spiders and he'll at least be contributing.

If you want extra anti-tank, go for the twin-linked bright lances on your Wave Serpent.

IMO, wise move dropping the Banshees. Harlequins are infinately superior.

The Pathfinders don't really seem to fit in with the overall manouvreable feel of the army. Have you put some thought into a cheap unit of jetbikes to provide covering fire while zipping around?

Well, there's my two cents. Hope I helped
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