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1000 points, untested... half unpainted... any thoughts?
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 02:09   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default 1000 points, untested... half unpainted... any thoughts?

i decided to dumb my list down to 1000, getting rid of the extraneous extra vehicle upgrades and such stuff, to try to capitalize more on my supertroopers (autarch, farseer, heavy exarchs etc) to make up for my lack of numbers... and here's what I came up with (this is based on a boxed Eldar Battleforce and a smattering of additions... farseer + warlock box, autarch, vyper, and a hawks box)

I am contemplating adding some of another aspect and kind of fading all the paint schemes into each other... but for now its just blue silver black and white. i dunno if some purple tinged reapers, some dragons, some scorps are next on my objective list... but for now i want to add some spears to it. just a little one-shot counterassault unit of 3... other than that... here's what I have managed to get together so far:

HQ#1: Autarch @107 pts...
scorpion sword, hawk wings, mandiblasters, lasblaster, the usual force shield/photon/haywire/shuriken pistol that comes with it.

HQ#2: Farseer @241 points (including his little warlock escourt):
regular farseer stuff + spear, doom, guide, spirit stones
3 warlocks: first is conceal and a spear, second has destructor and a witchblade, third has enhance and a witchblade.

TROOPS#1:guardians (10) with a scatter laser, and a warlock with a spear and conceal power

TROOPS#2:avengers (5)... exarch is packing a power weapon and shimmershield, has both defend and bladestorm powers... mounted in a Serpent armed with a hull mount suriken cannon and a turret mounted twin shuriken cannon

FAST#1: Hawks (6)... exarch has both abilities skyleap and intercept, and has a hawk's talon

FAST#2: Vyper (1)... starcannon and spirit stone

HEAVY: warwalker: 2 shuriken cannons

thats all my points. i am wondering if there are better ways to configure the warlock powers, heavy weapons on vehicles, and exarch stuff because i would love to free up some more points to put a holo field on the vyper, and i just dont want to short change any of the squads to do it. the hawks stay as is. the avengers can either go 'diresword' combo or 'shimmershield' combo. the autarch is up in the air cuz i haven't modelled him yet anyway (and cuz he has wings). the warwalker could be redone into any weapon config. i figured on maxxing out on the shuriken cannons with that and the serpent because of their comparatively low BS, and hoping the hawks with their haywire grenades and the autarch accompanying them, and all the warlock spears can handle the anti-tank work while the vehicle shuricannons and the scatterlaser platform just dish out masses of high strength dice.. i dunno. like i said this is untried, and i'm hoping a vet out there might be able to lead me somewhere remotely towards the right direction.
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Old 02 Aug 2007, 15:09   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: 1000 points, untested... half unpainted... any thoughts?

I'm assuming you want to keep most of the units and avoid any big changes, so here are a few suggestions I would make just for optimization:

Autarch: replace lasblaster with fusion gun. I just find the fusion gun to be more potent, since it hits on 2s.

Warlocks: remove Conceal and add Destructor, switching powers so it looks like this: 2x warlock w/ destructor and witchblade, 1 warlock w/ enhance and spear. Conceal has little use for a squad that has rune armour, unless you play against GK a lot.

Guardians: replace Conceal with Embolden, use the extra points for spirit stones on your serpent. The guardians aren't going to be Fortuned, so chances are they won't survive too long anyway. Stick them in cover and you get the same effect.

Hope that gives you a couple ideas. Good luck!

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Old 02 Aug 2007, 15:19   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 1000 points, untested... half unpainted... any thoughts?

Hi Centurion,

What I love about the list is that it isn't mech- which is all the "rage" right now- this is a "heart and soul" type Eldar list that relies on its specialized Aspects to get the job done.

But that said- let's run some numbers real fast:

6 Scoring units- good.

Shooting breakdown- 3 shots at S9 (very short range), 18 shots at S6, S5 Template, 36-40 shots at S4, 12 Shots at S3, S4 Pie Plate.- This could be better.

Assault- Farseer + Warlocks, Autarch, tarpit avengers- not very good.

Okay- so sounds like we need to beef our shooting, and our assault/counter.

Your HQ is running you a whopping 348 points- or nearly 35% of your total. This is bad news if you're playing missions- all your opponent has to do is kill 2 warlocks and you have 348 points spent in non-scoring units.

At 1K- I'd go thin on the HQ. If you're building a "tournament friendly" list, then your Autarch is fine as a lone HQ (I actually like his loadout). For all purpose though- I like a Roaming Doomseer on a jetbike with a Singing Spear for 108pts. He's a great 1K field commander.

The guardians are okay- so we'll leave them be. If I needed the points though- I'd scrap the Warlock- he costs more than 2 Swooping Hawks, and the unit doesn't absolutely have to have him to be effective.

The Dire Avengers are a little topheavy. The Exarch costs more than the rest of his unit. He's equipped with a power weapon and shimmershield, which means he isn't shooting- he's set up for defend, plus he only has 4 buddies, so even with defend they'll get run over, fast. With bladestorm there's only 4 guys shooting, so all those points spent for 4 extra shots just doesn't seem worth it.

For the same price of your unit you could run:

8 Dire Avengers 113pts
Exarch, Extra Shuricat

That's four points cheaper and is pumping out 18 S4 shots/turn, versus 12 every other turn. For MEQ killing that works out to 4 dead marines from your unit- assuming they fired every other turn, or 12 dead marines from my version, assuming they fired every turn. It runs 4 pts cheaper and triples the shooting output.

Also- spirit stones on their wave serpent is a must.

The hawks aren't bad- but I'd rather swap Skyleap to get a sunrifle. It's just more reliable performance. But frankly- since we're looking to boost dakka- a 6 man Warp Spider unit with a dual-wield exarch runs about the same if not cheaper than your unit- and will mow things down with 16 S6 shots a turn! Woot!

The Vyper is very expensive for its output- unless you know for a fact you'll get a couple of good rounds of shooting against terminators. Holofield would be a big no-no on an open topped AR10 skimmer. In fact I'd just take it stock and hand the Spirit Stone over to the Avengers' Wave Serpent.

But what I'd rather do with that Vyper and the Warwalker is scrap one to take a multiple of the other one- and this boils down to preference. Your warwalker is so cheap (and your Vyper so expensive) that you could drop the Vyper for 2 Warwalkers to add- running them seperately since you have many heavy slots open. So you're going from 8 S6 shots with these two units to 18 S6 shots for three scoring units...that's nice!

And don't forget if you follow my HQ advice you have 240pts left! Easily enough points for countercharge and one other nasty unit!

- Yriel
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Old 03 Aug 2007, 06:35   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 1000 points, untested... half unpainted... any thoughts?

Prince Yriel... as always you have many good ideas (walkers cost and vyper cost slapback into reality very helpful, as was my topheavy HQ) and I am going to go with some of them... also derfderf for the advice with the warlocks. This is (also) a list that isn't fieldable yet but still uses the figures I have available with only 1 extra warwalker and a box of Dire Avengers... tell me (when you have the time) if you think this may work better?

First off.. warlocks. dumped. the potential VP loss for a warlock bodyguard hosed down by a random blast, while they may be wicked and mean, costs far more points than the other elements that I could add to make it more flexible.

Second... the Dire Avengers, can be made into a line assault squad with the right exarch and enough extra guys, plus a hit squad with a lesser exarch just to annoy and add another scoring unit, and a diresword to challenge the 'mightiest of foes'. The smaller squad has a diresword exarch to attack the biggest character/monster it can find and nothing else, while the larger squad has a serpent to get around, 10 members, and a lot more shots where they may be needed. Bladestorm is worth it in a full squad of avengers I am thinking (hoping)? I am up in the air about 'defend' and 'shimmershield' for this guy because it's at the cost of a few shots and I'll have to dumb down points somewhere to fit it in, but I think that the big squad will be a center of attention for enemy stuff and it would be nice to make them as well protected as possible.

The Guardians I was figuring on dumbing down to just a meat shield for an extra shuriken cannon for the army. sit 'em in some cover early on and just another cheap scoring unit that nobody pays much attention to until it's too late.

Vyper.. sorry but it just looks so cool I don't care if y'all say it isn't tactically viable, so I dumbed it down to just a flanky jumpy out mass of shots to further chop up whatever squad has the most of my 'line' troops and Doom aimed at it.

The hawks are the heroes of this army I am thinking. I will try to be very careful how I use them. They could smash most vehicles if absolutely necessary with those haywire (and probably be cut up in the following turn - but if it's a crucial thing you do what you gotta do, right?), or they could just open up from a nicely picked angle on a squad I don't expect to live to fire back because it is being hammered by 3 other units at the same time, leaving themselves out of LOS from any other enemy squad after the blasts die down and the few survivors are pinned by the sungun. Surgical strike at it's finest (doom comes to mind as a fun way to add to this idea)

I love swooping hawks they are such beautiful figures and they kick shizzle out of stuff out of nowhere. One of the most magical cool units in 40k. And they LOOK SO COOL.

2 Walkers. How can you go wrong with 4 wandering shuriken cannons?

Autarch... wimped him down.. still haven't done this figure yet since it is one of the more up-in-the-air points configurations, so I am thinking to make the Autarch a woman based on a howling banshee body but painted like a dragon on parts of the armor (hence the fusion gun)... the last surviving warrior of those aspects on this craftworld... who knows, maybe the last surviving female too...go extreme on the 'dying craftworld' fluff... maybe I can figure out a way to free up a couple of points for a scorp sword too.. which would explain why only the hawks, spears, avengers are present... make an autarch that represents all the aspects NOT present? I dunno it seemed like a good idea to me.

Farseer. Just Doom. that simple. I can't help myself I just love the idea of concentrating so many multi shots (it's a LOT of shurik cannons in here I think) and forcing failed saves by simple dice majority. That's what the Walkers, Guardians, Serpent, and the Vyper with shuriken cannons (yes all of them) are intended for. Lotta dice. Lotta saves to fail. Also a backup assault toughie in a pinch, but I am thinking to keep him out of harms way while as best close to the biggest mass of shurik cannons I am concentrating.

Spears. just 3. no upgrades. This seems to be an ideal countercharge to just keep in cover and go whack something ugly when the chance presents itself. Maybe hang around the farseer at the backline, out of LOS so they can charge out at anything that threatens him.

So here's the list:
[hr]


[hr]
hope this one is better:

HQ#1: Autarch, fusion gun, banshee mask (83)
HQ#2: Farseer, Doom (80)

TR#1: Dire Avengers - 10 (262)
exarch (bladestorm, exarch catapult)
wave serpent (spirit stone, twin shuriken cannons)

TR#2: Dire Avengers - 5 (82)
exarch (diresword)

TR#3: Guardians -10 (85)
platform shuriken cannon


FA#1: Swooping hawks - 6 (173)
exarch (sunrifle, skyleap, intercept)

FA#2: Shining spears - 3 (105)

FA#3: Vyper (shuriken cannon) (50)

HA#: 2 warwalkers both with 2 shuriken cannons (80)



[hr]
I believe that puts me at 1000 points, and like you said - it really is an idealistic kind of eldar list. fluffy, tournament 'friendly' not that I worry too much about tournaments, and all nicely color schemed with the combination of aspects. Maybe?

So my prince, am I learning better yet? Or are there some better changes I can make before I commit to this thing? Remember I am an ex Guard player so I am completely relearning the tactics here.... I appreciate your help and would be glad to hear any comments or advice sorta postings you have the time and bother to post. I really REALLY want to turn this army into a work of art, not just a powerplaying mishmosh. Further additions may involve warlocks or wraith or falcon and other such stuff I can color in with it, but for now I just need to get my core together.
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Old 03 Aug 2007, 18:23   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: 1000 points, untested... half unpainted... any thoughts?

Hey Centurion,

I'm glad you brought up the fact that you're a Guard player- this helps tremendously.

Guard lists at the infantry level are about volume and special weapons. One thing Guard players tend to do better than Eldar players is develop strategies around a main infantry line- and most Eldar players circumvent this strategy, or build a main line for specialized purposes.

This is because You probably won't sweat losing half a dozen guardsmen a in a turn. An Eldar player usually can't afford that kind of attrition, unless their strategy specifically accounts for it.

As an Eldar player it's all about timing- saving up for that turn or couple of turns where you can unleash the full fury of a host- with the intent of breaking your opponent's momentum, raw strength, and numeric advantage. Precautions must be made in the list, deployment, and early movement to ensure that your "knockout combo" will still have the goods to pull it off.

Your second list is looking much better- and I believe that as a Guard player you'll find it more comfortable to use at first. Still- we probably want to look at a few things:

Your HQ is great! Actually though- Eldar initiative is good- so you'll rarely be outclassed with I6 on the Autarch to warrant a Banshee Mask. It's cheap enough though- and looks really cool. I'd probably want a Scorpion Chainsword in here.

Doomseer is specatcular. Let's leave him in here- you'll want to work out where in your line you want him- even if he's roaming.

No elites in an Eldar list is extremely unorthodox- because this is clearly one of our strengths! I'm not saying it's unfeasible though (I just recommend against it). The lack of an Elites unit shifts a combat critical role to the next most capable units- either the Shining Spears, Hawks or the mounted Avengers. This is a key element to your knockout combo. On this particular list- I like the Avengers in that role. I will admit I'm a bit concerned about the lone large vehicle target on the list. The Wave Serpent is fairly easy to down, and even easier to shake, and based on average performance I don't think even a full mounted avenger unit will grant you that amount of performance.

Instead what I would recommend is dropping the Wave Serpent, and modifying your troops and possibly elites to give you a more firm footing on the ground.

If you did this:

10 Dire Avengers 120pts

You'd save yourself 146 pts or so, and again, open up another potential scoring unit. Given your style of list- I would actually prefer to see Scorpions in it- and your newly freed points can buy a tooled up 6 man unit, or preferrably, you should try to free up points for an 8 man unit.

I'm going to give a shot at the way I might see your list working:

HQ

Farseer 80pts
Doom

Elites

7 Striking Scorpions 159pts
Exarch, Scorpion's Claw, Shadowstrike

Troops

10 Dire Avengers 120pts

11 Guardians 103pts
Scatter Laser

5 Pathfinders 120pts

Fast Attack

6 Swooping Hawks 173pts
Exarch, Skyleap, Sunrifle, Intercept

3 Shining Spears 105pts

Vyper 60pts
Shuriken Cannon, Hull Shuriken Cannon

Heavy Support

Warwalker 40pts
2x Shuriken Cannons

Warwalker 40pts
2x Shuriken Cannons

Total = 1,000pts

1K on the nose. Since I know you were a Guard player- I opted for a list that has a little more "meat" to it, while still feeling like a different army.

This list has a very impressive 9 scoring units, and 22 Shots at S6 (and boatloads of fire down the roster), along with a solid assaut unit up front (Scorpions), and a blitz/response unit (Spears). It has Pathfinders which (with the warwalkers) makes you an immediate force in Omega Missions, and this list is Doomseer's dream come true.

9 Scoring units may sound excessive but on the ground it makes for a nightmare at 1K- stagger and counter against assault/hordes, or set your counter/blitz against shooty armies- this llist can do both.

I wonder if you want to take my list and tweak it to your liking? I hope this might be helping some.

- Yriel
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