[frankthetank]

agonisers or punishers what do you take more and why ?

i know with the punisher and a few other war gear you could get you self a nice st6 power weapon but is it better then a agoniser ?

oy seem it better to have a punisher on you HQ and agonisers on your sybarites?

[ShadowDeth]

Frank, it all depends on the role you need your HQ or teamleader to perform. Also, the points you play, what you need to be able to handle. There is no simple answer and i'm afriad you won't get any better as a player if you don't try things out before asking everyone's opinion on it.

[frankthetank]

im try to start a topic here and your try to kill it >

[ShadowDeth]

I'm not trying to kill your topic, but I would like to spark some independent thought on your end.

[MagicJuggler]

It depends on the task you want to give your leader. If she's to be an IC, hunting down high-toughness creatures like Wraithlords and Carnifexes, the Pistol/Agonizer combo is the way to go; you'll also want a Shadowfield because you're more targetable. If she's to be in a retinue, hunting down the rank-and-file of Infantry, then give her the Punisher, Helm, Drugs, and Animus Vitae; she'll be capable of dealing Strength 6 hits and thus wounding Marines on 2+.

Of course, if given the option of being a Daemonvessel (if playing vs. Daemonhunters), take that as you have the potential with gear to become a Strength 10 powerhouse!

[Deadnight]

my personal preference is agonisers.

[ShadowDeth]

Agonizer is a coin flip versus any toughness, with the added ability to "touch" a vehicle with a 6 for AP. A punisher, with some effort and the price for the tormentor helm can turn into a reliable marine/weaker troop shredder. Applications beyond that are up to you.

Think where you need reliability, and what role you need that character to do.

Hints* 1) If you use your characters as troop shredders, you NEED to be reliably clearing out your kill zone by the time they get initiative order. Part of winning close combat is choking what can attack you back. Much easier with independent characters obviously.

2) To hunt monsters, a 6 strength will never cut it. It takes too much effort to scratch them with punishers, and an agonizer gives you better odds than you will ever get. Monster/Demon/Avatar/Wraithlord models have very high quality hits, but relatively low amounts. They will bounce off of your shadow field while you're scratching them with your whip and winning combat.

3) A punisher on a team leader is questionable, because for the same points you can have an item that can bail you out of any situation, given your dice rolls.

Beyond that, you need to just try the models and form your own opinions. If you are over reliant on message board info you won't improve as a player.

[Lomendil]

A weapons combo I've come to like after using it a few times recently is Agonizer + Tormentor Helm + Poisonblades. The Agonizer is used against anything with good armour, the poisonblades against anything with light armour, the Tormentor Helm is there to give an extra attack when using the Agonizer (the poisonblades can't combine with other weapons). It's a good all-round loadout useful against armies with quite a lot of varied units such as Eldar, Tyranids or Orks.

[frankthetank]

Originally Posted by Grey Area

A weapons combo I've come to like after using it a few times recently is Agonizer + Tormentor Helm + Poisonblades. The Agonizer is used against anything with good armour, the poisonblades against anything with light armour, the Tormentor Helm is there to give an extra attack when using the Agonizer (the poisonblades can't combine with other weapons). It's a good all-round loadout useful against armies with quite a lot of varied units such as Eldar, Tyranids or Orks.

so you can say ok im using my poison blades insted of the agonizer?

[Lomendil]

Yep. If you have more than one special close combat weapon, you can choose which one to use. Can't use both in the same assault phase though.