[KwiKwag]

I am very curious if anyone is either continuing to play Wych Cult or if they have switched from Kabal to Wych Cult in 5th edition.

In a nut shell I am a Wych Cult player by heart, it was the first list I ever played and with a wwp list I was pretty much un-affraid of anyone (especially when I used Kroot allies to supplement the list).

Now in 5th, True line of sight has decimated my 4th edition WWP list coupled with new consolidation rules and the devastating "troops as scoring units" rule. It was like 5th edition was the rebirth of Slaanesh (she who thirsts) and consumed my Wych Cult army - even the Kroot allies became illegal.

So what kind of army I play now? I am fielding mostly "Coven" lists now with a kind of "raider & warrior spam" flavor where I max out the number of warrior squads with max weapons in a max populated troop unit (10 man raider squads and 16+ foot warrior squads). Shooting has been bumped up and assault has been bumped down and I find a tough-shooty Coven list (like a chaos nurgle list) to be more productive than it was in 4th - I believe I have harmony in this kind of list.

I can't seem to find any "harmony" with wych cult - what are you guys playing lately?

[FTyross]

I'm still playing a Raider heavy Wych list as my "main" Dark Eldar army. But it is sort of a hybrid, with two squads of Warriors as extra bodies on the field.

[MXBlade]

My list is still raider/warrior heavy. I use 1 or 2 wyche squads but thats it. I also still use a squad of mandrakes, even though they aren't so great.

I agree the consolidation rules in 5th really has hurt the wyche lists since they can't take getting drilled with bolter fire after an assault. I use them to primarily tie up tough HTH units and to push others off objectives.

Mostly I use raider squads as the bread and butter, plus I field 3 ravagers, whcih can put out some serious damage.

[Wargamer]

I've not touched DE in 5th... I don't have the heart to try it. I can't shake the feeling that they're doomed to instant failure the moment you declare you've finished deploying.

[gumgum921]

i use a couple of 10 man warrior units on foot (armed to the teath) but my main assault is from reavers, raider mounted wyches n raider mounted hq and incubi. i admit that 5th ed has hurt my list, winning combat on my turn makes me cry and i rarely use disys anymore due not killing anything in 5th ed w/ them *sigh* beyound that i still usually win

[KwiKwag]

Well, in the light of my question I decided to give Wych Cult lists a whirl to see if they are really that "down & out" as I perceive them to be. With no one really admitting they use them (as a cult list) and my failure the month after 5th came out I decided if I like playing the army that nobody else plays I might as well play the list no other DE player plays as well.

So, to add history to my list construction I am going to try a couple theories out that I try to put into my lists. First I want to mention that a month or 2 ago (actually, a little longer) I entered into a 1,000 point tournament at my local GW. Most of my friends and a couple that went to the GT with me in Sept were going to play otherwise I do not like games under 1500 and avoid them like the plague but I was told that the tables were going to be split in two (3'x4&#39 and I immediately thought of my wyches getting 1st turn charges with a dedicated Raider Rush list.

My list:

Archite: WW, punisher, t-helm, drugs, SF, plasma, t-rack.
8 wyches, WW, plasma, 2 blasters w/succubus, agoniser, pistol. Raider, darklance
8 wyches, WW, plasma, 2 blasters w/succubus, agoniser, pistol. Raider, darklance
8 wyches, WW, plasma, 2 blasters w/succubus, agoniser, pistol. Raider, darklance
Ravager, 3 lance
Ravager, 3 dissy

The tables had decent terrain I and I usually had enough cover to hide 1 raider and 1 ravager and plenty of time to play a full game I figured if I got first turn to go ahead and place everyone on the table and if I move 2nd then I would place units in reserve in case the enemy, terrain and mission endangered my chances of getting the wyches into combat.

As it turned out I played 3 games and 2 of them were "new" and I had only one that wasn't new but was trying out an all terminator list for the first time. I ended up beating all 3 players (vanilla space marines, deathwing? and a Necrons player) but I tied with another fellow (my friend from the GT) and although we got the same painting score at the GT, they gave the nod to him and he edged me out (I still considered it a tie though as I have beaten him before and if we went to a tie-breaker game against his nids I think I would have won, oh well).

So, what have I learned in my style of list making?

1. Although TLOS (true-line-of-sight) has made us more vulnerable on the first turn, speed, speed and more speed is the true counter measure. You cannot hide your wwp carriers any more and its just plain too risky, if I need to hide something from the enemy, just plain "reserves" is not only free but way more reliable. Of course, this is a playstyle observation so milage may vary - it works for me however.

2. Having as many "scoring units" as you can afford is vital. In a Raider Rush list the raiders of the troop choices are extremely important in do 2 things: keeping your scoring units mobile and if they do not have passengers they can still win you the game by contesting enemy objectives on the last turn. I cannot tell you how much of a chess game the 5th turn has become for me as I dump my scoring units at close nearby objective then turbo charge 2 to 3 empty raiders at the enemy held objectives. This not only takes the fire off my fragile troop choices but causes near panic as my enemy now has to down several raiders with 4+ cover or lose the game. I will even send my ravagers to contest knowing that any marines nearby that need to move to the objective are stuck (if they move then special weapons cannot fire and if they stay still to fire then they cannot not claim at all). Of course, that only works if there is no plasma or anything else fancy in the squad.

So at 1750 I would like to have 5 scoring units using wych cult but the cost has me at 4, 2000 5 for sure if not 6.

3. When I win 1st move, take it. I really do like always going 2nd and some Kabal lists did fine that way but Wych cult is too fragile to do that - use reserves if I go 2nd and preserve what I can.

4. Distraction units. I gotta have them and they must be up front and scary. For my wych cult I am using 2 squads of 3 bikes. Lelith & retinue also makes a scary distraction as well and I am thinking throwing bikes and Lelith should relieve the pressure off the scoring units - I will even take a troop choice off to make sure there is something else for the enemy to shoot at. I am still testing this, my next game may be going with a 5 wych squad and use an Archite and see if that does better than Lelith + retinue. Another unit I am finding very handy is a raider squad with blaster, cannon and a sybarite with xeno.

5. Using reserves to stagger my more potent units. Lelith would most always be put on the table but I will usually play 3 ravagers and they may start in reserve as they are the most productive units in the list (now that cc can't consolidate into other cc making shooting units more "efficient").

So tomorrow I will try out these ideas and see if they are viable in 5th edition. I will probably have to play this at least 10 times to get a feel and see if they can truly be used competitively (or find out if I am a good enough general to make it work). I will try one game with Lelith and another with an Archite.

I still field a small wych army when facing my friends Eldar. He hates it. Like I said, its pretty small: 1xDracon w/ pwr wpn and splinter pistol w/ss ammo and a 7 incubi retinue (1w/ blaster 1w/shredder) 2x12 wyches w/ Succubi (each with a blaster and shredder a piece) 1x8 wyches on raider, 2x10 troops on raiders (fully armed) 1x15 troops on foot, 11 reaver jetbikes, 2 ravagers ( 1= 2 dark lance, 1 disruptor, 1=2 disruptor, 1 dark lance)

While I agree, this type of army gets eaten by marines, tau and ork they seem to do pretty well against Eldar and MC based 'Nid armies.