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jetbike?!
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Old 04 Jul 2007, 03:07   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default jetbike?!

okay, so me and my brother were playing a 2 v2 game on our 8 by 4 table we have. I was on a team with my other lil brother's IG, and i was versing 'crons and tau. My brother argued that because DE are like eldar, and because eldar jetbikes have Toughness 3(4), my DE ones must be the same. I then went on to defy him by reading the statline straight from my codex. (mindful that nowhere have i found officical rules stating that De bikes are T 3(4). He rebuttled by saying that my codex was 'old' and outdated(i have the latest version), thanks GW), and that in the rulebook it states jetbikes add + 1 to the Toughness characteristic, but are still killed by weapons with strength values double their toughness. I also thought it was important to note that DE jetbike riders are not only T 4 but S 4. Well, here's the point. My lord was mounted on a jetbike; nearing his Tau commander with Plasma rifle and MP. He shot my lord and i failed the invulnerable save, so i said, "okay, one wound, and my Shadow field is destroyed", he then laughed and told me that he was killed outright. I fake-laughed back and said to him that my lord had T4, not T3(4), and that DE jetbike riders were just tougher than Eldar ones, and my lord wasn't T3, he was just a tougher lord with T 4.


...Now i know many are probably skeptical of my intentions but i was, for all purposes, playing by the rules. I felt i was just in my action. of course, in the realization that his commander would have certainly died the next turn in CC to my lord, i feel he was strongly biased, but i was using proof staright from the codex.



All in all, we rolled the dice and i beat him and my lord just took one wound, thoughts
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Old 04 Jul 2007, 03:50   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: jetbike?!

I would have to say you are right hear even though I dont have much knowledge on the subject.
You are reading straight from the codex and just because a DIFFERENT armies jetbikes are a DIFFERENT toughness doesnt mean that yours are the same.
It is in no way your fualt that GW hasnt released a DE codex since 2nd Ed.
Just tell you brother to deal with it yout right he is wrong. ANyway who is to say that DE are on drugs or just plain thougher.
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Old 04 Jul 2007, 15:27   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: jetbike?!

He is right, if it was your lord on a bike, than your get the +1 toughness bonus and the movement anti-bonus. He can be insta-killed by strenght 6 weapons, with the reavers you could try to say that they wouldn't be insta killed, but those always have the bikes.

Anyway why would you put your lord on a bike? It's really expensive and it slows him down.
With a bike you only have a 18" charging range with out you could charge up to 32".
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Old 04 Jul 2007, 17:11   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: jetbike?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by help!!
Anyway why would you put your lord on a bike? It's really expensive and it slows him down.
With a bike you only have a 18" charging range with out you could charge up to 32".
I think the main reasons are to either give him a bodyguard of reaver jetbikes or to make the infamous S6 lord (+1 from jetbike, +1 from combat drugs and +1 from animus vitae) without the need for a punisher. it also allows the lord to turbo-boost into better positions around the board and the toughness boost is often useful.

But, the bike does not prevent your lord from being instant killed. Look at page 27 of the rule book and find the box in the top right corner titled "INSTANT DEATH!". Look at the third paragraph in said box. It says "Note that some models can gain improvements to their toughness by using wargear items, Chas marks and sundry other means. When it comes to instant death such bonuses do not count!". The Reaver Jetbike is a wargear item thus does not prevent instant death from weapons that are S6 or S7.
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Old 05 Jul 2007, 14:10   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: jetbike?!

Thanks guys for clearing that up for me.

But the reason i mount my archon is so i can speed 24" first turn, then the second turn, move 12", then charge 6", almost 95% guaranteeing HtH combat. PLus i dont have a lord model, and only have the starter set so you gotta gimme a break here. I am taking it slow with my army. Its not to say i prefer a lord mounted on a bike, but what do you want me to do? I am still unsure of whether or not to mount my lord on a raider and give him a retinue of Incubi, or just make a cool looking jetbike army. Honestly i just hate T 3. It blows. The only way to fight somone in hand to hand is to annihilate them the first round of combat, and i can't charge 12" with incubi in the squad.

Although this is change of subject, and i am sure that it has been argued before, could people please give me their personal thoughts on how to configure my lord's retinue/best wargear? (other than the shadowfield) Pro's and Con's would be quite helpful.
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Old 05 Jul 2007, 14:23   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: jetbike?!

Since your lord is an IC he can be attached to any squad, inclduing a normal wyche or warrior squad in a raider.

With a raider you can move 12", then 2" deployement, then 1-6" FoF, then another 12" charge

Thats a guarenteed 26+D6 inches of movement in one turn. and remembering your 12" set up anyway you can get a minimum 39" in to the board edge in one turn.

Add on to that deploying your raider sideways and then pivoting it to get an extra few inches of movement, you can effectively with a little bit of pre-emptive planning, charge anything on the board.

Ive used this trick a few times (it works especially well against tightly packed tau)
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Old 06 Jul 2007, 01:41   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: jetbike?!

Well if you are going to have incubi I would go with

Dracon, punisher, T-helm-trophy rack, and drugs plasma nades
5 incubi with plasma nades

You don't want or need an Archon with incubi. You want to stay in combat you don't want to wipe out one squad and than get out of combat.

The Archon is best as a killer by himself.
Archon, agoniser, drugs, Shadow field, plasma,Trophy rack, splitter pistol, and that is it!

The agonsier can take out anything and makes it one less drug you want to take so you shouldn't OD. With the drugs you should take the 12" charge that is the only way to get into combat, always take the +1 attack and re-roll misses. Shadow field is a no-brainer. Plasma nades one less drug to take makes it easier to charge into cover. Trophy rack is great IMO increases your leadership so the Archon is LD10 after one kill! The pistol counts as a cc weapon and costs the same why wouldn't you want that?



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Old 06 Jul 2007, 14:18   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: jetbike?!

Because your playing a horde army, and he has 18 gaunts flanked by two carnifexes.

Or a Warboss and 10 nobs.

But thats only because i play 'nids alot.

It really depends on who or what your playing.
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